Quote from: BojackHorsefella on September 22, 2020, 01:42:55 PMQuote from: Rigg44 on September 22, 2020, 01:03:34 PM
Well, I haven't checked back here in a bit but wow BoJack you are one hostile fella. You need to calm down and take the time to read a post and not read into it what you want to see. I will do my best to respond.
As Crew pointed out when I spoke of Rosa Parks and others, I was alluding to the point Gina Carano was making with her original tweet, not comparing her to Rosa Parks. Sorry, that alluded you.
If you can not find examples of cancel culture due to an unwillingness to conform to a vocal mob's shouts, that's on you. You are willfully ignorant on that front if you can't see it.
One, my stance on Trans people is my stance on all people. The way a person chooses to live his or her life is their choice. Only if that way of life brings harm to others should it be curtailed. No one should be persecuted for their beliefs or lifestyle. Violence against any person for their chosen lifestyle is not to be condoned nor encouraged. This doesn't mean that anyone should be forced to accept another's choices or beliefs into their own belief system.
Two, I am not sure what point you were making with the whole Donald Trump and Identity politics rant. I didn't talk about any of those things.
Not sure what I am apathetic about since I did not say any of the things you are accusing me of saying. As far as peaceful protests go. They are protected by the constitution under the right to peacefully assemble. So, yea have at it. Protest away as long as it's peaceful.
To say that the only people that should be afraid of cancel culture are bigots is like saying the only people that should fear the police are the guilty. Today's accepted is tomorrow's offense in today's gottcha social media-driven narrative. So if anyone is asinine it is you for believing that statement.
So, let me address these points in turn:
Rosa Parks stood up for people. Gina, at most, stood up for herself. I stand by saying the comparison is asinine. Again, not saying Gina had to give in to the mob, but, just noting the comparison is wildly inaccurate.
And, no, cancel culture is not coming for us. Cancel culture only exists on Twitter and, as our current administration and their families are all way too online and involved on Twitter, yes, they tend to get banned, or have posts censored, but that's all it is. Cancel culture doesn't exist in real life. And that's the point I made, that you failed to recognize. When you start parroting off these buzzwords, like "groupthink" and "the digital Gestapo," you're parroting right wing talking points. There's not much more to it than that, I don't know what to tell you, it's that straightforward. These specters and ghouls are of 0 concern to most ordinary citizens, and yet it's the way the GOP has to scare people into voting for them nowadays. When you parrot it, you actively promote it. Be more careful with your words?
"Choice or belief" system is an interesting way to phrase things. It's funny, considering how we talk about "cancel culture" in here, as white males. How do you think trans individuals feel? Do you think they feel cancelled, every day of their life? Do you think when they were barred from the military or when NC tries to pass bath room bills, they felt cancelled? That's real oppression, that's real "cancel culture," and that's why your rhetoric above about "mobs" is misguided at best, actively dangerous at worst. You and I don't have to fear cancel culture. No one's coming to Blindsideblitz to get us.
So yes, when someone has a platform, with a prominent, public face, people tend to want them to stand up for them, because for some reason in this country, minorities are overlooked and underheard. Again, do I feel like that should have resulted in harassment towards her? Absolutely not. But I think when we fear the online response, more than the actual, real life, physical response these people experience everyday, we lose a piece of ourselves. That's why they want you scared of cancel culture, but, again, and I cannot emphasize this enough, it does not exist.
I think there's also something to be said for the fact that Carano, as far as I know, hasn't taken any stances. I don't think she's spoken out against anything. I don't think she's spoken out for anything. So, at a time when we see another prominent public figure, JK Rowling, actively speaking out against trans people and basically calling them not human, to have Gina decide this is the hill she's going to die on, with her "beep/boop/bop" response, is a pretty shit look, overall. She could have A) not responded, B) taken steps towards trans-advocacy or C) provided an actual reasoned argument for her decisions. Instead, she chose to belittle and mock, which is when things really kicked into high gear. She's responsible for her own actions too, and clearly isn't afraid of "cancel culture." Meanwhile, JK, for all her anti-trans bullshit, also has a new book being released, so, again, it only exists on Twitter, not in real life.
This is all why I take issue with your overall response. Yeah, I get her point, as do you, but then you kept talking and sputtering on with this other nonsense.
And, one last thing, and this isn't really a direct response but a rambling thought following: While I absolutely decry methods of harassment and violence, the fact that people actively oppose equal rights for these minority groups, and this is treated like a valid opinion and something worth protecting, will never stop boggling my mind. For some reason in this country, and we see it here, we often are angrier about the reaction to the problem than the problem itself. Our "radical left" is normal left in most other countries, our "center" is far right in most countries, and yet we treat the cries of the left for compassion towards citizens, for restoring humanity and dignity to our people, as "radical" while giving credence to those who would promote bigotry and oppress our fellow citizens. I don't understand this. I don't understand why people won't call a spade a spade and instead do this Ben Shapiro "marketplace of ideas" nonsense. If our country recognized this, Gina Carano would've never been in the position she's in to begin with, but, hey, that's just America at this point.
Well, again you act like there was a lot more to my post then was there.
Yes, Rosa park stood up for people as did the person in the picture Gina shared. So, the comparison is not invalid or a stretch. Unless you think a person refusing to salute in Nazi Germany was less dangerous than what Rosa Parks did and in that case your nuts. They were both dangerous in equal amounts.
You seem to think it is ok to sensor one's thoughts and ideas. That is more like Nazi Germany than the United States. This is a market place of ideas, thanks for reminding me of that phrase haven't heard it since 8th-grade government class. The first amendment protects all speech, not just the speech you or I agree with. The market place of ideas eliminates things like racism and unjust beliefs because it allows them to be in the daylight for all to see. It allows reasonable people to choose between what is clearly wrong and clearly right. It allows for as you say a spade to be called a spade. If you try and suppress an idea you only succeed to drive it underground where it will grow in the fertile conspiratorial ground of the internet. You cannot regulate people's morality. It doesn't work, see the prohibition for an example. You are displaying the exact behavior I am talking about "be more careful with your words" why because I might offend someone? I have said nothing in either post that a reasonable nonpartisan person would find offensive.
What does my race have to with the Transgender issue? That is a reach and partisan rhetoric at best. Every point you made in the paragraph is irrelevant because I did not advocate or even comment regarding any of those issues. They were irrelevant to the topic at hand. As far as my fear of cancel culture, I don't fear it because even if I became its target, unlikely I know but for argument sake, I wouldn't give it a thought. I would not give in to it because it is like a petulant child whaling for its way. It will get louder and louder until it eventually realizes its tactic won't work and then will move on. Thus, the reason I respected her response. She did not capitulate to their stupid caterwauling. She may eventually give in to their pressure and what I am sure her agent is telling her but for now, I respect her actions.
Those with a platform are not obligated to parrot anyone's ideas. They are paid to do a job. Play a sport, pretend to be another person on film, write a book. None of those careers makes you obligated to say anything on anyone's behalf. If you chose to express your opinion than you are stupid to not expect others to push back or directly disagree. That however is not the same as being shouted into silence because you don't agree with the loudest trolls. As far as her Bee Boop Bop comment I actually thought she was referencing R2D2 in some offbeat connection to her role on the Mandalorian. I thought it was a misguided attempt to lighten the mood. It failed to land and she would have been better off saying nothing. As you said she has not come out to support anything one way or another which is why your attack of my original post was very confusing. I did not attack any group or support any agenda but you jumped right to a bunch of conclusions with no evidence to substantiate them. Literally nothing in my post was left or right. It only denounced the mob mentality of the internet and all that entails, the mob by the way is known as cancel culture. As defined by Merriam-webster "The Origin of 'Cancel Culture'
The term has been credited to black users of Twitter, where it has been used as a hashtag. As troubling information comes to light regarding celebrities who were once popular, such as Bill Cosby, Michael Jackson, Roseanne Barr, and Louis C.K. —so come calls to cancel such figures."
https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/cancel-culture-words-were-watching#:~:text=The%20Origin%20of%20'Cancel%20Culture'&text=The%20term%20has%20been%20credited,calls%20to%20cancel%20such%20figures.
Almost everything you said in the last paragraph is an opinion, not fact, and you are entitled to it. God bless you for being you, even as wrong as you are. Here is a litmus test for your theories on how bad this county is. How many people leave this country on rafts, homemade boats, or just illegally immigrate to other countries to get away from the extreme poverty and oppression taking place here? Now, how many do those things just to get a chance to call this country home? We may not be perfect but we are a damn sight better than most alternatives.
I noticed you ignored my rebuttal of your accusation of me having no moral compass or humanity just like you did the last time we had this discussion, good because you have no leg to stand on. I live a life of compassion for others I don't just rant about it on the internet. If you can't talk with others who differ from you with some modicum of respect then you should refrain from doing so until you grow up a bit. You routinely talk down to those that hold different views than you. You act like you have a moral authority that is, well imagined. You are no better than I am or any other poor schlub trying to make it in this world. You can think your poop don't stink because you chose to swallow the blue pill instead of the red but in all honesty all of the poop stinks, its poop. I remained respectful to you until you started basically calling me immoral and implying many other things. For a while I just avoided posting anything political here until Crew encouraged me to return to the fray awhile back. So, I guess in hindsight I did give in to a type of cancel culture I allowed your behavior to detour me from sharing my input on discussions.
