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Author Topic: education scandal  (Read 95 times)

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Offline Crewe

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education scandal
« on: March 13, 2019, 12:49:42 PM »
Like most scandals, Im waiting to hear more information. But apparently Lori Loughlin, et al, paid to fake test scores and have their daughters listed or pose as athletes to gain admission to sought after universities.

I do hope this isn't seen as a Hollywood elite thing because its not, its a wealth problem.

I should add that I absolutely love it when rich folks get arrested even though they rarely face deserved consequences.

Offline Bucfever

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Re: education scandal
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2019, 02:45:53 PM »
I do hope this isn't seen as a Hollywood elite thing because its not, its a wealth problem.

There's actually a really good Twitter thread (believe it or not) addressing this:



This is indicative of the issue with journalism these days: everyone's focusing on Loughlin and Huffman, because obviously those are names we know and celebrities we recognize, and this becomes a "Hollywood elite" thing. But it's not a "Hollywood elite" thing. It's a wealthy thing, and it's sad. You have all this money, you can get your shitty kids the best tutors or the best private school in the world, but you still have to cheat and fuck over someone else's kid who actually put in the work, in order to get in the university you want.

So much wrong here and it barely scrapes the surface.

Offline Crewe

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Re: education scandal
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2019, 02:50:01 PM »
thanks for the feed, did not know that.

Offline Rigg44

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Re: education scandal
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2019, 03:18:34 PM »
Terrible scandal but I see it more of a corruption issue than a wealth issue.  The coaches and others that took these bribes are more culpable than those offering them.  Don't get me wrong both should be punished but the lion's share of guilt belongs to those receiving the bribes.  They are the ones making the opportunity available and in the end, are ultimately responsible for knowingly refusing other students their proper place.

Offline Crewe

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Re: education scandal
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2019, 03:34:39 PM »
Terrible scandal but I see it more of a corruption issue than a wealth issue.  The coaches and others that took these bribes are more culpable than those offering them.  Don't get me wrong both should be punished but the lion's share of guilt belongs to those receiving the bribes.  They are the ones making the opportunity available and in the end, are ultimately responsible for knowingly refusing other students their proper place.

I think that's the sentiment we all share that all parties need to be dealt with accordingly and swiftly because this is certainly not a new problem.
However, I do tend to disagree with your first statement. I see wealth and corruption as one in the same. You typically can't have one without the other.
Also, Im not certain you can lay the brunt of guilt on one or the other. I mean, outside of this case, but I can easily see a wealthy participant create an offer that would not otherwise be available, thats one of the great benefits of having money. Just my opinion anyway.

Offline Rigg44

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Re: education scandal
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2019, 03:41:26 PM »
Terrible scandal but I see it more of a corruption issue than a wealth issue.  The coaches and others that took these bribes are more culpable than those offering them.  Don't get me wrong both should be punished but the lion's share of guilt belongs to those receiving the bribes.  They are the ones making the opportunity available and in the end, are ultimately responsible for knowingly refusing other students their proper place.

I think that's the sentiment we all share that all parties need to be dealt with accordingly and swiftly because this is certainly not a new problem.
However, I do tend to disagree with your first statement. I see wealth and corruption as one in the same. You typically can't have one without the other.
Also, Im not certain you can lay the brunt of guilt on one or the other. I mean, outside of this case, but I can easily see a wealthy participant create an offer that would not otherwise be available, thats one of the great benefits of having money. Just my opinion anyway.

I agree in spirit with what you are saying.  It is, however, more incumbent on those that we put in positions of power and entrust with decisions that decide others futures be the un corruptable. If not then they should not be in those positions.  I would also disagree that it takes money to equal corruption.  Power and position can corrupt just as quickly and a position of power does not always come with wealth.

Offline Crewe

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Re: education scandal
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2019, 05:36:03 PM »
Terrible scandal but I see it more of a corruption issue than a wealth issue.  The coaches and others that took these bribes are more culpable than those offering them.  Don't get me wrong both should be punished but the lion's share of guilt belongs to those receiving the bribes.  They are the ones making the opportunity available and in the end, are ultimately responsible for knowingly refusing other students their proper place.

I think that's the sentiment we all share that all parties need to be dealt with accordingly and swiftly because this is certainly not a new problem.
However, I do tend to disagree with your first statement. I see wealth and corruption as one in the same. You typically can't have one without the other.
Also, Im not certain you can lay the brunt of guilt on one or the other. I mean, outside of this case, but I can easily see a wealthy participant create an offer that would not otherwise be available, thats one of the great benefits of having money. Just my opinion anyway.

I agree in spirit with what you are saying.  It is, however, more incumbent on those that we put in positions of power and entrust with decisions that decide others futures be the un corruptable. If not then they should not be in those positions.  I would also disagree that it takes money to equal corruption.  Power and position can corrupt just as quickly and a position of power does not always come with wealth.

I just don't think thats possible. A system of checks, however that would be implemented, would have to be in place in my mind because, like the old wrestler Ted Dibiase said, everybody's got a price and I think nothing is more true.

I agree with the power sentiment certainly but I think power without wealth being attached is the rarity and not the norm, IMO.
But I see we are pretty much on the same page.

Offline Rigg44

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Re: education scandal
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2019, 11:44:41 AM »
Terrible scandal but I see it more of a corruption issue than a wealth issue.  The coaches and others that took these bribes are more culpable than those offering them.  Don't get me wrong both should be punished but the lion's share of guilt belongs to those receiving the bribes.  They are the ones making the opportunity available and in the end, are ultimately responsible for knowingly refusing other students their proper place.

I think that's the sentiment we all share that all parties need to be dealt with accordingly and swiftly because this is certainly not a new problem.
However, I do tend to disagree with your first statement. I see wealth and corruption as one in the same. You typically can't have one without the other.
Also, Im not certain you can lay the brunt of guilt on one or the other. I mean, outside of this case, but I can easily see a wealthy participant create an offer that would not otherwise be available, thats one of the great benefits of having money. Just my opinion anyway.

I agree in spirit with what you are saying.  It is, however, more incumbent on those that we put in positions of power and entrust with decisions that decide others futures be the un corruptable. If not then they should not be in those positions.  I would also disagree that it takes money to equal corruption.  Power and position can corrupt just as quickly and a position of power does not always come with wealth.

I just don't think thats possible. A system of checks, however that would be implemented, would have to be in place in my mind because, like the old wrestler Ted Dibiase said, everybody's got a price and I think nothing is more true.

I agree with the power sentiment certainly but I think power without wealth being attached is the rarity and not the norm, IMO.
But I see we are pretty much on the same page.

Just because people are corruptible doesn't mean you give them a pass.  Of course, most people have a price but that doesn't excuse them from the responsibility of giving in to that price.  Also, power is often obtained without wealth.  Congress gets paid a salary that by no means should make them millionaires but they all end up rich. Examples of power without wealth are all around you.  Your local elected officials, police officers, military officers, hell someone that's a shift supervisor at a fast food establishment.  Power is relative in scale but it is still power. So I disagree that power and wealth go hand in hand.  If fact I would guess that power is more often obtain without wealth.   

Offline Bucfever

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Re: education scandal
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2019, 11:59:31 AM »
I mean, we started this thread talking about wealth vs corruption. Might it just be that we're still talking about corruption, it's just that there's sort of three ways about that: Corruption, as in the legal term and detailing the immorality and unethical actions that have been taken, but also corruption, as in the way that power corrupts a person, or wealth can corrupt a person. So, to Rigg's point, he's right about wealth isn't the only thing that can "corrupt" a person, we've seen plenty of state legislators and members of the police force, judges, etc that have all been corrupted by their positions of power, despite not having wealth.

And then there's those who do have wealth that use that wealth to game the system, even though they (presumably) know it is incorrect. To your point about politicians Rigg, they are not SUPPOSED to be rich, but thanks to our society and economic and political systems, between just lobbying and of course speaking engagements, they have plenty of alternate revenue streams to accumulate wealth along with their power (plus lord knows how much insider trading. All of the insider trading. And great pensions!)

Offline Crewe

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Re: education scandal
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2019, 12:12:32 PM »
Terrible scandal but I see it more of a corruption issue than a wealth issue.  The coaches and others that took these bribes are more culpable than those offering them.  Don't get me wrong both should be punished but the lion's share of guilt belongs to those receiving the bribes.  They are the ones making the opportunity available and in the end, are ultimately responsible for knowingly refusing other students their proper place.

I think that's the sentiment we all share that all parties need to be dealt with accordingly and swiftly because this is certainly not a new problem.
However, I do tend to disagree with your first statement. I see wealth and corruption as one in the same. You typically can't have one without the other.
Also, Im not certain you can lay the brunt of guilt on one or the other. I mean, outside of this case, but I can easily see a wealthy participant create an offer that would not otherwise be available, thats one of the great benefits of having money. Just my opinion anyway.

I agree in spirit with what you are saying.  It is, however, more incumbent on those that we put in positions of power and entrust with decisions that decide others futures be the un corruptable. If not then they should not be in those positions.  I would also disagree that it takes money to equal corruption.  Power and position can corrupt just as quickly and a position of power does not always come with wealth.

I just don't think thats possible. A system of checks, however that would be implemented, would have to be in place in my mind because, like the old wrestler Ted Dibiase said, everybody's got a price and I think nothing is more true.

I agree with the power sentiment certainly but I think power without wealth being attached is the rarity and not the norm, IMO.
But I see we are pretty much on the same page.

Just because people are corruptible doesn't mean you give them a pass.  Of course, most people have a price but that doesn't excuse them from the responsibility of giving in to that price.  Also, power is often obtained without wealth.  Congress gets paid a salary that by no means should make them millionaires but they all end up rich. Examples of power without wealth are all around you.  Your local elected officials, police officers, military officers, hell someone that's a shift supervisor at a fast food establishment.  Power is relative in scale but it is still power. So I disagree that power and wealth go hand in hand.  If fact I would guess that power is more often obtain without wealth.

Nowhere did I say or even remotely suggest giving anyone a pass in this scenario.
Those examples you give are absolutely true but not related to the topic we are discussing

Offline Rigg44

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Re: education scandal
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2019, 01:01:24 PM »
Terrible scandal but I see it more of a corruption issue than a wealth issue.  The coaches and others that took these bribes are more culpable than those offering them.  Don't get me wrong both should be punished but the lion's share of guilt belongs to those receiving the bribes.  They are the ones making the opportunity available and in the end, are ultimately responsible for knowingly refusing other students their proper place.

I think that's the sentiment we all share that all parties need to be dealt with accordingly and swiftly because this is certainly not a new problem.
However, I do tend to disagree with your first statement. I see wealth and corruption as one in the same. You typically can't have one without the other.
Also, Im not certain you can lay the brunt of guilt on one or the other. I mean, outside of this case, but I can easily see a wealthy participant create an offer that would not otherwise be available, thats one of the great benefits of having money. Just my opinion anyway.

I agree in spirit with what you are saying.  It is, however, more incumbent on those that we put in positions of power and entrust with decisions that decide others futures be the un corruptable. If not then they should not be in those positions.  I would also disagree that it takes money to equal corruption.  Power and position can corrupt just as quickly and a position of power does not always come with wealth.

I just don't think thats possible. A system of checks, however that would be implemented, would have to be in place in my mind because, like the old wrestler Ted Dibiase said, everybody's got a price and I think nothing is more true.

I agree with the power sentiment certainly but I think power without wealth being attached is the rarity and not the norm, IMO.
But I see we are pretty much on the same page.

Just because people are corruptible doesn't mean you give them a pass.  Of course, most people have a price but that doesn't excuse them from the responsibility of giving in to that price.  Also, power is often obtained without wealth.  Congress gets paid a salary that by no means should make them millionaires but they all end up rich. Examples of power without wealth are all around you.  Your local elected officials, police officers, military officers, hell someone that's a shift supervisor at a fast food establishment.  Power is relative in scale but it is still power. So I disagree that power and wealth go hand in hand.  If fact I would guess that power is more often obtain without wealth.

Nowhere did I say or even remotely suggest giving anyone a pass in this scenario.
Those examples you give are absolutely true but not related to the topic we are discussing

They are related to your statement that wealth and power are synonymous.  I think we can agree that the parties on both sides need to be punished.  Those that bribed need to be held to whatever the law will allow and those that took bribes should be fired.

Offline Crewe

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Re: education scandal
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2019, 04:03:36 PM »
And I stand by what I said. But that context did not extend to a 16 year old shift manager at Jack in the Box.

Ill add to your last sentiment that those that took bribes need to be more than fired, they need to face justice as well.

Offline Crewe

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Re: education scandal
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2019, 04:04:16 PM »
Incidentally I see Loughlin is out on one million dollar bond.

 

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