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Author Topic: Gina Carano  (Read 469 times)

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Online Crewe

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Gina Carano
« on: September 15, 2020, 08:54:08 PM »
I posted this in political to be safe, but Im genuinely just curious if anyone knows of her controversy?
Apparently she shared the attached photo depicting a defiant German who refused to salute as he was married to a Jewish woman, or was about to be, not sure.
In any event, she commented something like, love changes one person at a time or similar, certainly not supporting Nazi's.
Next, people demand she say ACAB and BLM, and then it extended to people demanding she have pronouns in her bio, else they deem her transphobic.
I browsed her timeline and I just don't get it, what am I missing?
She further stated that Mandalorian co star Pedro Pascal enlightened her on the pronoun thing (wish he
would enlighten me too) but she would not be bullied in to adding such things to her bio and instead added robot onomatopoeia's which apparently was taken as a direct rebuff by many.
Enlighten me, cuz I'm a guy out of the loop and I just don't get it.
Am I supposed to hate her or not?  :D



Offline TheNorm

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Re: Gina Carano
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2020, 10:58:41 PM »
F*ck if I know lol. I didn't even realize putting your preferred pronoun in your bio on twitter was supposed to be a thing. Unless she stated specifically she hates trans people I don't get the hate.
ďBut it is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention. And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the negro poor has worsened over the last twelve or fifteen years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity.Ē - Martin Luther King, Jr

Offline Rigg44

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Re: Gina Carano
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2020, 09:36:27 AM »
She was just making a point that no one, except those extreme few, on either side of any issue should take exception to.  It only takes one who will not move with the current.  One who will stand against the tide.  Like Rosa Parks, Franklin McCain, or the Unknown Protester, who all put their persons on the line to stand for what they believed in. However, now you must bend to the will of the mob.  You must join the coalition of groupthink.  To fail to show your allegiance to every facet of the mobs belief system is to be shouted down and relegated to obscurity or worse to become the subject of their attacks. Innocent until proven guilty is no longer the standard. The assumption of goodwill no longer the norm. Now the digital Gustopo assume your guilt and look for reason to become enraged.  Cancel culture, gottacha culture, the mob has become judge jury and executioner .  I hope for all our sake that more people take a stand against the mob and refuse to bend to their demands.  Not because their demands are just or unjust but because they are demands backed by the threat of cancellation.  That is not how you change a world for the better.  That is how you build a fascist society built on anger and the fear of your neighbors, the fear of your government, the fear of cancelation. 

Online Crewe

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Re: Gina Carano
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2020, 10:48:36 AM »
F*ck if I know lol. I didn't even realize putting your preferred pronoun in your bio on twitter was supposed to be a thing. Unless she stated specifically she hates trans people I don't get the hate.

I didnt either norm lol
And that was my question too because I looked through her tweets and didnt see any sort of hateful message, hence my confusion. I guess they just decided she was evil


She was just making a point that no one, except those extreme few, on either side of any issue should take exception to.  It only takes one who will not move with the current.  One who will stand against the tide.  Like Rosa Parks, Franklin McCain, or the Unknown Protester, who all put their persons on the line to stand for what they bnorm lol
believed in. However, now you must bend to the will of the mob.  You must join the coalition of groupthink.  To fail to show your allegiance to every facet of the mobs belief system is to be shouted down and relegated to obscurity or worse to become the subject of their attacks. Innocent until proven guilty is no longer the standard. The assumption of goodwill no longer the norm. Now the digital Gustopo assume your guilt and look for reason to become enraged.  Cancel culture, gottacha culture, the mob has become judge jury and executioner .  I hope for all our sake that more people take a stand against the mob and refuse to bend to their demands.  Not because their demands are just or unjust but because they are demands backed by the threat of cancellation.  That is not how you change a world for the better.  That is how you build a fascist society built on anger and the fear of your neighbors, the fear of your government, the fear of cancelation.


Good post, and I get her point for sure, I just thought, there has to be something else, it cant just be that can it?
Apparently so lol
Twitter is becoming just as toxic as Facebook for me.
I mean to demand that someone put a pronoun in their bio or they will henceforth be deemed trasnphobic...that's just ridiculous

Offline BojackHorsefella

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Re: Gina Carano
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2020, 01:19:32 PM »
So, on topic:

I'm not sure why Gina Carano is being singled out. I don't see her having a history of anti-trans statements, so I'm not sure why she'd be the target of a months long campaign to add pronouns. Twitter being Twitter, I have to wonder if it's A) bot traffic, because I recall reading that 40% of Twitter traffic is just bots (might be 60%, I may have them reversed). There's also the fact that most people who actively Tweet have way too much time on their hands. I think her response was extremely childish and escalatory, and there was clearly a much better way to address this, but, again, it's Twitter. We've already spent too much time on the subject.

HOWEVER



She was just making a point that no one, except those extreme few, on either side of any issue should take exception to. It only takes one who will not move with the current.  One who will stand against the tide.  Like Rosa Parks, Franklin McCain, or the Unknown Protester, who all put their persons on the line to stand for what they believed in. However, now you must bend to the will of the mob.  You must join the coalition of groupthink. To fail to show your allegiance to every facet of the mobs belief system is to be shouted down and relegated to obscurity or worse to become the subject of their attacks. Innocent until proven guilty is no longer the standard. The assumption of goodwill no longer the norm. Now the digital Gustopo assume your guilt and look for reason to become enraged.  Cancel culture, gottacha culture, the mob has become judge jury and executioner .  I hope for all our sake that more people take a stand against the mob and refuse to bend to their demands.  Not because their demands are just or unjust but because they are demands backed by the threat of cancellation.  That is not how you change a world for the better.  That is how you build a fascist society built on anger and the fear of your neighbors, the fear of your government, the fear of cancelation.


This rhetoric is idiotic and incisive. Rosa Parks, please. We live in a time where our citizens are being tear gassed during peaceful protests, and you want to call on the name of Rosa Parks because of a TWITTER SPAT?! Is it groupthink, or mob mentality, in a time where our government, the current administration in the United States, has actively taken steps to STRIP THE RIGHTS of transgender citizens, be it for them to serve, be it healthcare protections, etc? Why is the mob calling for social justice and respect for these communities, these individuals, the mob you oppose?

You bring up the specter of "cancel culture." Who's been cancelled? Tell me 1 person who has been cancelled. What happened to them? Roseanne? She seems fine. Nick Sandman? He still got to college, got to speak at the RNC. Alex Jones? Sure, he was banned from Twitter, but he's still got his show. Laura Loomer? yeah, she was banned from Twitter and handcuffed herself to their headquarters front entrance. Now she's running for the House in Florida.

You bring up a lot of strawman arguments Rigg, but that's the problem, it's a whole lot of fluff. It's just excuses so you don't have to recognize the humanity of others. As someone with both a cousin and who's mother-in-law have transitioned, seeing the awful things done to their community (NC bathroom bill comes to mind), seeing the homicide and suicide rates of trans individuals (especially black trans-women), seeing the nonsense spewing from JK Rowling, also online, no, I don't have an issue with a movement for social justice.

Directing it towards people on Twitter because they're not doing the bare minimum of having pronouns, sure, that's probably not the best use of their energy. But man, everything in your post is what people are fighting against, and it's so strange how what you're saying sounds so close to the bullshit spewed by Donald Trump Jr and his ilk, daily, on the same platform.

"Identity politics!" they cry, as if asking to have your humanity recognized will tear the country apart. No sir, it's your apathy and your misguided compass that refuses to call out those who are actually oppressing our citizens, and instead focus on ghosts like "cancel culture." The only people who are actually afraid of cancel culture are bigots. What side are you on, Rigg?
« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 01:36:25 PM by BojackHorsefella »

Online Crewe

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Re: Gina Carano
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2020, 02:41:39 PM »
Personally, I think I understood his point about Rosa Parks, et al. Sure, comparing her directly to a Twitter fight is not the same, but I took it to mean that was the message Carano was sending via the defiant German photo.
As for me, I was just confused as hell how it got from there to adding pronouns in a bio. The beep bop boop or whatever she added, yea, probably not the best thing to do, but in her mind, at least to me, it feels like that's how she is answering the pronoun, ACAB, and BLM demands.

To the Twitter bot thing, wasn't there a Black Mirror episode about that very thing?
40% bots would be alarming to me, especially considering the results they seem to achieve.

Offline BojackHorsefella

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Re: Gina Carano
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2020, 02:49:48 PM »
Twitter mobs suck, I get it, but trying to compare them to Nazis or segregationists when they're attempting to stand up for the rights of overlooked groups (although, again, Twitter is not the place or the way to do it) is inherently absurd and shows an extreme misperception of the current state of things.

Again, I agree with you on Carano. It sucks she couldn't just put them in there because it's a simple thing and trans-advocacy is inherently good, however, I don't understand why a mob has focused on her, specifically. I see no history of anti-trans statements. I do believe our athletes, our movie and TV stars should have a responsibility to use their visibility and public platforms for good, but, I stress again, harassment is not the way to make that happen.

But, I can't just let the logical fallacies and buzzword excrement that Rigg spewed to go unquestioned. Not during this present time, when for some reason, we're still debating the humanity of living individuals as "groupthink."

Offline Rigg44

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Re: Gina Carano
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2020, 01:03:34 PM »
So, on topic:

I'm not sure why Gina Carano is being singled out. I don't see her having a history of anti-trans statements, so I'm not sure why she'd be the target of a months long campaign to add pronouns. Twitter being Twitter, I have to wonder if it's A) bot traffic, because I recall reading that 40% of Twitter traffic is just bots (might be 60%, I may have them reversed). There's also the fact that most people who actively Tweet have way too much time on their hands. I think her response was extremely childish and escalatory, and there was clearly a much better way to address this, but, again, it's Twitter. We've already spent too much time on the subject.

HOWEVER



She was just making a point that no one, except those extreme few, on either side of any issue should take exception to. It only takes one who will not move with the current.  One who will stand against the tide.  Like Rosa Parks, Franklin McCain, or the Unknown Protester, who all put their persons on the line to stand for what they believed in. However, now you must bend to the will of the mob.  You must join the coalition of groupthink. To fail to show your allegiance to every facet of the mobs belief system is to be shouted down and relegated to obscurity or worse to become the subject of their attacks. Innocent until proven guilty is no longer the standard. The assumption of goodwill no longer the norm. Now the digital Gustopo assume your guilt and look for reason to become enraged.  Cancel culture, gottacha culture, the mob has become judge jury and executioner .  I hope for all our sake that more people take a stand against the mob and refuse to bend to their demands.  Not because their demands are just or unjust but because they are demands backed by the threat of cancellation.  That is not how you change a world for the better.  That is how you build a fascist society built on anger and the fear of your neighbors, the fear of your government, the fear of cancelation.


This rhetoric is idiotic and incisive. Rosa Parks, please. We live in a time where our citizens are being tear gassed during peaceful protests, and you want to call on the name of Rosa Parks because of a TWITTER SPAT?! Is it groupthink, or mob mentality, in a time where our government, the current administration in the United States, has actively taken steps to STRIP THE RIGHTS of transgender citizens, be it for them to serve, be it healthcare protections, etc? Why is the mob calling for social justice and respect for these communities, these individuals, the mob you oppose?

You bring up the specter of "cancel culture." Who's been cancelled? Tell me 1 person who has been cancelled. What happened to them? Roseanne? She seems fine. Nick Sandman? He still got to college, got to speak at the RNC. Alex Jones? Sure, he was banned from Twitter, but he's still got his show. Laura Loomer? yeah, she was banned from Twitter and handcuffed herself to their headquarters front entrance. Now she's running for the House in Florida.

You bring up a lot of strawman arguments Rigg, but that's the problem, it's a whole lot of fluff. It's just excuses so you don't have to recognize the humanity of others. As someone with both a cousin and who's mother-in-law have transitioned, seeing the awful things done to their community (NC bathroom bill comes to mind), seeing the homicide and suicide rates of trans individuals (especially black trans-women), seeing the nonsense spewing from JK Rowling, also online, no, I don't have an issue with a movement for social justice.

Directing it towards people on Twitter because they're not doing the bare minimum of having pronouns, sure, that's probably not the best use of their energy. But man, everything in your post is what people are fighting against, and it's so strange how what you're saying sounds so close to the bullshit spewed by Donald Trump Jr and his ilk, daily, on the same platform.

"Identity politics!" they cry, as if asking to have your humanity recognized will tear the country apart. No sir, it's your apathy and your misguided compass that refuses to call out those who are actually oppressing our citizens, and instead focus on ghosts like "cancel culture." The only people who are actually afraid of cancel culture are bigots. What side are you on, Rigg?

 Well, I haven't checked back here in a bit but wow BoJack you are one hostile fella.  You need to calm down and take the time to read a post and not read into it what you want to see. I will do my best to respond.

As Crew pointed out when I spoke of Rosa Parks and others, I was alluding to the point Gina Carano was making with her original tweet, not comparing her to Rosa Parks.  Sorry, that alluded you.

If you can not find examples of cancel culture due to an unwillingness to conform to a vocal mobís shouts, thatís on you.  You are willfully ignorant on that front if you canít see it.

As for your rant on Trans this or Trans that, all I can say is what the hell did that have to do with anything I said?  I did not weigh in on any Transgender issues in this post.  I also said literally nothing about anything else you then went on to rant about. All I did was show support for a person refusing to give in to the mob. Refusing to be shouted into apologizing for a made-up offense. She did nothing to indicate she is Transphobic.

Although I have no reason to respond to the content of your rant since I did nothing to incite it I will despite knowing It will be ignored since your mind Is a closed book incapable of adding new pages that donít fit an already written narrative.

One, my stance on Trans people is my stance on all people.  The way a person chooses to live his or her life is their choice. Only if that way of life brings harm to others should it be curtailed.   No one should be persecuted for their beliefs or lifestyle. Violence against any person for their chosen lifestyle is not to be condoned nor encouraged.  This doesnít mean that anyone should be forced to accept anotherís choices or beliefs into their own belief system.

Two, I am not sure what point you were making with the whole Donald Trump and Identity politics rant.  I didnít talk about any of those things. 
Not sure what I am apathetic about since I did not say any of the things you are accusing me of saying. As far as peaceful protests go. They are protected by the constitution under the right to peacefully assemble.  So, yea have at it. Protest away as long as it's peaceful.

 To say that the only people that should be afraid of cancel culture are bigots is like saying the only people that should fear the police are the guilty.  Today's accepted is tomorrow's offense in today's gottcha social media-driven narrative. So if anyone is asinine it is you for believing that statement.

Three, Bo Jack I have said this before but I guess it needs repeating.  You can question many things about my beliefs or even my choices but f*&k you if you think you can question my moral compass or humanity.  As a Nurse, Surgical first assistant, and even a CNA.  I have cared for people of all creeds, nationalities, and lifestyles. I have held the hands of the dying, comforted mothers after their babies were born with no life in them. I have helped sew back together all manner of mangled human beings.  Guess what, not once did I ask what party they voted for, what their sexual orientation was, what race they were, or what form of government they believed in.  You know why? Because it didnít matter, all I cared about was their wellbeing, seeing them made whole, and knowing they would be able to survive whatever tragedy brought them my way. So, donít question my humanity, or my moral compass, I believe my ledger is in the black on both counts. 

Offline BojackHorsefella

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Re: Gina Carano
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2020, 01:42:55 PM »
Well, I haven't checked back here in a bit but wow BoJack you are one hostile fella.  You need to calm down and take the time to read a post and not read into it what you want to see. I will do my best to respond.

As Crew pointed out when I spoke of Rosa Parks and others, I was alluding to the point Gina Carano was making with her original tweet, not comparing her to Rosa Parks.  Sorry, that alluded you.

If you can not find examples of cancel culture due to an unwillingness to conform to a vocal mobís shouts, thatís on you.  You are willfully ignorant on that front if you canít see it.

One, my stance on Trans people is my stance on all people.  The way a person chooses to live his or her life is their choice. Only if that way of life brings harm to others should it be curtailed.   No one should be persecuted for their beliefs or lifestyle. Violence against any person for their chosen lifestyle is not to be condoned nor encouraged.  This doesnít mean that anyone should be forced to accept anotherís choices or beliefs into their own belief system.

Two, I am not sure what point you were making with the whole Donald Trump and Identity politics rant.  I didnít talk about any of those things. 
Not sure what I am apathetic about since I did not say any of the things you are accusing me of saying. As far as peaceful protests go. They are protected by the constitution under the right to peacefully assemble.  So, yea have at it. Protest away as long as it's peaceful.

 To say that the only people that should be afraid of cancel culture are bigots is like saying the only people that should fear the police are the guilty.  Today's accepted is tomorrow's offense in today's gottcha social media-driven narrative. So if anyone is asinine it is you for believing that statement.

So, let me address these points in turn:

Rosa Parks stood up for people. Gina, at most, stood up for herself. I stand by saying the comparison is asinine. Again, not saying Gina had to give in to the mob, but, just noting the comparison is wildly inaccurate.

And, no, cancel culture is not coming for us. Cancel culture only exists on Twitter and, as our current administration and their families are all way too online and involved on Twitter, yes, they tend to get banned, or have posts censored, but that's all it is. Cancel culture doesn't exist in real life. And that's the point I made, that you failed to recognize. When you start parroting off these buzzwords, like "groupthink" and "the digital Gestapo," you're parroting right wing talking points. There's not much more to it than that, I don't know what to tell you, it's that straightforward. These specters and ghouls are of 0 concern to most ordinary citizens, and yet it's the way the GOP has to scare people into voting for them nowadays. When you parrot it, you actively promote it. Be more careful with your words?

"Choice or belief" system is an interesting way to phrase things. It's funny, considering how we talk about "cancel culture" in here, as white males. How do you think trans individuals feel? Do you think they feel cancelled, every day of their life? Do you think when they were barred from the military or when NC tries to pass bath room bills, they felt cancelled? That's real oppression, that's real "cancel culture," and that's why your rhetoric above about "mobs" is misguided at best, actively dangerous at worst. You and I don't have to fear cancel culture. No one's coming to Blindsideblitz to get us.

So yes, when someone has a platform, with a prominent, public face, people tend to want them to stand up for them, because for some reason in this country, minorities are overlooked and underheard. Again, do I feel like that should have resulted in harassment towards her? Absolutely not. But I think when we fear the online response, more than the actual, real life, physical response these people experience everyday, we lose a piece of ourselves. That's why they want you scared of cancel culture, but, again, and I cannot emphasize this enough, it does not exist.

I think there's also something to be said for the fact that Carano, as far as I know, hasn't taken any stances. I don't think she's spoken out against anything. I don't think she's spoken out for anything. So, at a time when we see another prominent public figure, JK Rowling, actively speaking out against trans people and basically calling them not human, to have Gina decide this is the hill she's going to die on, with her "beep/boop/bop" response, is a pretty shit look, overall. She could have A) not responded, B) taken steps towards trans-advocacy or C) provided an actual reasoned argument for her decisions. Instead, she chose to belittle and mock, which is when things really kicked into high gear. She's responsible for her own actions too, and clearly isn't afraid of "cancel culture." Meanwhile, JK, for all her anti-trans bullshit, also has a new book being released, so, again, it only exists on Twitter, not in real life.

This is all why I take issue with your overall response. Yeah, I get her point, as do you, but then you kept talking and sputtering on with this other nonsense.

And, one last thing, and this isn't really a direct response but a rambling thought following: While I absolutely decry methods of harassment and violence, the fact that people actively oppose equal rights for these minority groups, and this is treated like a valid opinion and something worth protecting, will never stop boggling my mind. For some reason in this country, and we see it here, we often are angrier about the reaction to the problem than the problem itself. Our "radical left" is normal left in most other countries, our "center" is far right in most countries, and yet we treat the cries of the left for compassion towards citizens, for restoring humanity and dignity to our people, as "radical" while giving credence to those who would promote bigotry and oppress our fellow citizens. I don't understand this. I don't understand why people won't call a spade a spade and instead do this Ben Shapiro "marketplace of ideas" nonsense. If our country recognized this, Gina Carano would've never been in the position she's in to begin with, but, hey, that's just America at this point.

Online Crewe

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Re: Gina Carano
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2020, 02:15:34 PM »
Well, I haven't checked back here in a bit but wow BoJack you are one hostile fella.  You need to calm down and take the time to read a post and not read into it what you want to see. I will do my best to respond.

As Crew pointed out when I spoke of Rosa Parks and others, I was alluding to the point Gina Carano was making with her original tweet, not comparing her to Rosa Parks.  Sorry, that alluded you.

If you can not find examples of cancel culture due to an unwillingness to conform to a vocal mobís shouts, thatís on you.  You are willfully ignorant on that front if you canít see it.

One, my stance on Trans people is my stance on all people.  The way a person chooses to live his or her life is their choice. Only if that way of life brings harm to others should it be curtailed.   No one should be persecuted for their beliefs or lifestyle. Violence against any person for their chosen lifestyle is not to be condoned nor encouraged.  This doesnít mean that anyone should be forced to accept anotherís choices or beliefs into their own belief system.

Two, I am not sure what point you were making with the whole Donald Trump and Identity politics rant.  I didnít talk about any of those things. 
Not sure what I am apathetic about since I did not say any of the things you are accusing me of saying. As far as peaceful protests go. They are protected by the constitution under the right to peacefully assemble.  So, yea have at it. Protest away as long as it's peaceful.

 To say that the only people that should be afraid of cancel culture are bigots is like saying the only people that should fear the police are the guilty.  Today's accepted is tomorrow's offense in today's gottcha social media-driven narrative. So if anyone is asinine it is you for believing that statement.

So, let me address these points in turn:

Rosa Parks stood up for people. Gina, at most, stood up for herself. I stand by saying the comparison is asinine. Again, not saying Gina had to give in to the mob, but, just noting the comparison is wildly inaccurate.

And, no, cancel culture is not coming for us. Cancel culture only exists on Twitter and, as our current administration and their families are all way too online and involved on Twitter, yes, they tend to get banned, or have posts censored, but that's all it is. Cancel culture doesn't exist in real life. And that's the point I made, that you failed to recognize. When you start parroting off these buzzwords, like "groupthink" and "the digital Gestapo," you're parroting right wing talking points. There's not much more to it than that, I don't know what to tell you, it's that straightforward. These specters and ghouls are of 0 concern to most ordinary citizens, and yet it's the way the GOP has to scare people into voting for them nowadays. When you parrot it, you actively promote it. Be more careful with your words?

"Choice or belief" system is an interesting way to phrase things. It's funny, considering how we talk about "cancel culture" in here, as white males. How do you think trans individuals feel? Do you think they feel cancelled, every day of their life? Do you think when they were barred from the military or when NC tries to pass bath room bills, they felt cancelled? That's real oppression, that's real "cancel culture," and that's why your rhetoric above about "mobs" is misguided at best, actively dangerous at worst. You and I don't have to fear cancel culture. No one's coming to Blindsideblitz to get us.

So yes, when someone has a platform, with a prominent, public face, people tend to want them to stand up for them, because for some reason in this country, minorities are overlooked and underheard. Again, do I feel like that should have resulted in harassment towards her? Absolutely not. But I think when we fear the online response, more than the actual, real life, physical response these people experience everyday, we lose a piece of ourselves. That's why they want you scared of cancel culture, but, again, and I cannot emphasize this enough, it does not exist.

I think there's also something to be said for the fact that Carano, as far as I know, hasn't taken any stances. I don't think she's spoken out against anything. I don't think she's spoken out for anything. So, at a time when we see another prominent public figure, JK Rowling, actively speaking out against trans people and basically calling them not human, to have Gina decide this is the hill she's going to die on, with her "beep/boop/bop" response, is a pretty shit look, overall. She could have A) not responded, B) taken steps towards trans-advocacy or C) provided an actual reasoned argument for her decisions. Instead, she chose to belittle and mock, which is when things really kicked into high gear. She's responsible for her own actions too, and clearly isn't afraid of "cancel culture." Meanwhile, JK, for all her anti-trans bullshit, also has a new book being released, so, again, it only exists on Twitter, not in real life.

This is all why I take issue with your overall response. Yeah, I get her point, as do you, but then you kept talking and sputtering on with this other nonsense.

And, one last thing, and this isn't really a direct response but a rambling thought following: While I absolutely decry methods of harassment and violence, the fact that people actively oppose equal rights for these minority groups, and this is treated like a valid opinion and something worth protecting, will never stop boggling my mind. For some reason in this country, and we see it here, we often are angrier about the reaction to the problem than the problem itself. Our "radical left" is normal left in most other countries, our "center" is far right in most countries, and yet we treat the cries of the left for compassion towards citizens, for restoring humanity and dignity to our people, as "radical" while giving credence to those who would promote bigotry and oppress our fellow citizens. I don't understand this. I don't understand why people won't call a spade a spade and instead do this Ben Shapiro "marketplace of ideas" nonsense. If our country recognized this, Gina Carano would've never been in the position she's in to begin with, but, hey, that's just America at this point.

I'll just comment on this portion. I don't see that she mocked anyone, and this is where cancel culture comes in for me, she was being an advocate against online bullying. And bullies can participate even in righteous causes, which is what happened here I think.
Out of nowhere, people demanded she say...think about that, it was demanded of her to say ACAB and BLM or she was a racist transphobe. This, after she posted said picture. ACAB and BLM have nothing to do with trans issues.  :o
She elected to not cave in and that doesnt mean she doesnt care. I get the feeling she does care, but the beep bop boop in my mind was a quiet fuck you, I will not acquiesce to your ridiculous demands. Who the fuck are you anyway?
That's the spirit I take away from this whole thing.


Offline BojackHorsefella

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Re: Gina Carano
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2020, 02:28:09 PM »
She elected to not cave in and that doesnt mean she doesnt care. I get the feeling she does care, but the beep bop boop in my mind was a quiet fuck you, I will not acquiesce to your ridiculous demands. Who the fuck are you anyway?
That's the spirit I take away from this whole thing.

But there's a reason people put those pronouns into their profiles: it's to normalize it for both the trans-community and non-binary folks, who do use those pronouns in their profiles to avoid misgendering. However, it also puts a target on their back for the online bigots, and thus the proliferation of pronouns across the site. I don't have them in my profile on Twitter because I don't tweet, ever, literally, I only read stuff on the site plus I'm certainly not a person of any prominence, but I do have them in my email signature at work, all for the purpose of helping to normalize pronoun usage at my workplace.

Again, I'm not saying she had to add the pronouns to her Twitter, and I'm not saying she should lose her job on the Mandalorian because of the beep/boop/bop nonsense. But it was a childish and misguided response. It's a case of "everyone reacted in the worst way possible," from the people harassing her to Gina's response, and unfortunately, it results in the erasure of the actual victims and issue.

Offline Rigg44

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Re: Gina Carano
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2020, 03:34:49 PM »
Well, I haven't checked back here in a bit but wow BoJack you are one hostile fella.  You need to calm down and take the time to read a post and not read into it what you want to see. I will do my best to respond.

As Crew pointed out when I spoke of Rosa Parks and others, I was alluding to the point Gina Carano was making with her original tweet, not comparing her to Rosa Parks.  Sorry, that alluded you.

If you can not find examples of cancel culture due to an unwillingness to conform to a vocal mobís shouts, thatís on you.  You are willfully ignorant on that front if you canít see it.

One, my stance on Trans people is my stance on all people.  The way a person chooses to live his or her life is their choice. Only if that way of life brings harm to others should it be curtailed.   No one should be persecuted for their beliefs or lifestyle. Violence against any person for their chosen lifestyle is not to be condoned nor encouraged.  This doesnít mean that anyone should be forced to accept anotherís choices or beliefs into their own belief system.

Two, I am not sure what point you were making with the whole Donald Trump and Identity politics rant.  I didnít talk about any of those things. 
Not sure what I am apathetic about since I did not say any of the things you are accusing me of saying. As far as peaceful protests go. They are protected by the constitution under the right to peacefully assemble.  So, yea have at it. Protest away as long as it's peaceful.

 To say that the only people that should be afraid of cancel culture are bigots is like saying the only people that should fear the police are the guilty.  Today's accepted is tomorrow's offense in today's gottcha social media-driven narrative. So if anyone is asinine it is you for believing that statement.

So, let me address these points in turn:

Rosa Parks stood up for people. Gina, at most, stood up for herself. I stand by saying the comparison is asinine. Again, not saying Gina had to give in to the mob, but, just noting the comparison is wildly inaccurate.

And, no, cancel culture is not coming for us. Cancel culture only exists on Twitter and, as our current administration and their families are all way too online and involved on Twitter, yes, they tend to get banned, or have posts censored, but that's all it is. Cancel culture doesn't exist in real life. And that's the point I made, that you failed to recognize. When you start parroting off these buzzwords, like "groupthink" and "the digital Gestapo," you're parroting right wing talking points. There's not much more to it than that, I don't know what to tell you, it's that straightforward. These specters and ghouls are of 0 concern to most ordinary citizens, and yet it's the way the GOP has to scare people into voting for them nowadays. When you parrot it, you actively promote it. Be more careful with your words?

"Choice or belief" system is an interesting way to phrase things. It's funny, considering how we talk about "cancel culture" in here, as white males. How do you think trans individuals feel? Do you think they feel cancelled, every day of their life? Do you think when they were barred from the military or when NC tries to pass bath room bills, they felt cancelled? That's real oppression, that's real "cancel culture," and that's why your rhetoric above about "mobs" is misguided at best, actively dangerous at worst. You and I don't have to fear cancel culture. No one's coming to Blindsideblitz to get us.

So yes, when someone has a platform, with a prominent, public face, people tend to want them to stand up for them, because for some reason in this country, minorities are overlooked and underheard. Again, do I feel like that should have resulted in harassment towards her? Absolutely not. But I think when we fear the online response, more than the actual, real life, physical response these people experience everyday, we lose a piece of ourselves. That's why they want you scared of cancel culture, but, again, and I cannot emphasize this enough, it does not exist.

I think there's also something to be said for the fact that Carano, as far as I know, hasn't taken any stances. I don't think she's spoken out against anything. I don't think she's spoken out for anything. So, at a time when we see another prominent public figure, JK Rowling, actively speaking out against trans people and basically calling them not human, to have Gina decide this is the hill she's going to die on, with her "beep/boop/bop" response, is a pretty shit look, overall. She could have A) not responded, B) taken steps towards trans-advocacy or C) provided an actual reasoned argument for her decisions. Instead, she chose to belittle and mock, which is when things really kicked into high gear. She's responsible for her own actions too, and clearly isn't afraid of "cancel culture." Meanwhile, JK, for all her anti-trans bullshit, also has a new book being released, so, again, it only exists on Twitter, not in real life.

This is all why I take issue with your overall response. Yeah, I get her point, as do you, but then you kept talking and sputtering on with this other nonsense.

And, one last thing, and this isn't really a direct response but a rambling thought following: While I absolutely decry methods of harassment and violence, the fact that people actively oppose equal rights for these minority groups, and this is treated like a valid opinion and something worth protecting, will never stop boggling my mind. For some reason in this country, and we see it here, we often are angrier about the reaction to the problem than the problem itself. Our "radical left" is normal left in most other countries, our "center" is far right in most countries, and yet we treat the cries of the left for compassion towards citizens, for restoring humanity and dignity to our people, as "radical" while giving credence to those who would promote bigotry and oppress our fellow citizens. I don't understand this. I don't understand why people won't call a spade a spade and instead do this Ben Shapiro "marketplace of ideas" nonsense. If our country recognized this, Gina Carano would've never been in the position she's in to begin with, but, hey, that's just America at this point.

Well, again you act like there was a lot more to my post then was there.

Yes, Rosa park stood up for people as did the person in the picture Gina shared.  So, the comparison is not invalid or a stretch.  Unless you think a person refusing to salute in Nazi Germany was less dangerous than what Rosa Parks did and in that case your nuts.  They were both dangerous in equal amounts.
You seem to think it is ok to sensor oneís thoughts and ideas.  That is more like Nazi Germany than the United States.  This is a market place of ideas, thanks for reminding me of that phrase havenít heard it since 8th-grade government class. The first amendment protects all speech, not just the speech you or I agree with.  The market place of ideas eliminates things like racism and unjust beliefs because it allows them to be in the daylight for all to see.  It allows reasonable people to choose between what is clearly wrong and clearly right. It allows for as you say a spade to be called a spade. If you try and suppress an idea you only succeed to drive it underground where it will grow in the fertile conspiratorial ground of the internet.   You cannot regulate peopleís morality.  It doesnít work, see the prohibition for an example.  You are displaying the exact behavior I am talking about ďbe more careful with your wordsĒ why because I might offend someone? I have said nothing in either post that a reasonable nonpartisan person would find offensive.
What does my race have to with the Transgender issue?  That is a reach and partisan rhetoric at best. Every point you made in the paragraph is irrelevant because I did not advocate or even comment regarding any of those issues.  They were irrelevant to the topic at hand.  As far as my fear of cancel culture, I donít fear it because even if I became its target, unlikely I know but for argument sake, I wouldnít give it a thought.  I would not give in to it because it is like a petulant child whaling for its way. It will get louder and louder until it eventually realizes its tactic won't work and then will move on.  Thus, the reason I respected her response.  She did not capitulate to their stupid caterwauling. She may eventually give in to their pressure and what I am sure her agent is telling her but for now, I respect her actions.
Those with a platform are not obligated to parrot anyoneís ideas.  They are paid to do a job. Play a sport, pretend to be another person on film, write a book.  None of those careers makes you obligated to say anything on anyoneís behalf.  If you chose to express your opinion than you are stupid to not expect others to push back or directly disagree.  That however is not the same as being shouted into silence because you donít agree with the loudest trolls. As far as her Bee Boop Bop comment I actually thought she was referencing R2D2 in some offbeat connection to her role on the Mandalorian.  I thought it was a misguided attempt to lighten the mood.  It failed to land and she would have been better off saying nothing.  As you said she has not come out to support anything one way or another which is why your attack of my original post was very confusing.  I did not attack any group or support any agenda but you jumped right to a bunch of conclusions with no evidence to substantiate them.  Literally nothing in my post was left or right.  It only denounced the mob mentality of the internet and all that entails, the mob by the way is known as cancel culture. As defined by Merriam-webster  ďThe Origin of 'Cancel Culture'
The term has been credited to black users of Twitter, where it has been used as a hashtag. As troubling information comes to light regarding celebrities who were once popular, such as Bill Cosby, Michael Jackson, Roseanne Barr, and Louis C.K. óso come calls to cancel such figures.Ē 
https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/cancel-culture-words-were-watching#:~:text=The%20Origin%20of%20'Cancel%20Culture'&text=The%20term%20has%20been%20credited,calls%20to%20cancel%20such%20figures.

Almost everything you said in the last paragraph is an opinion, not fact, and you are entitled to it.  God bless you for being you, even as wrong as you are. Here is a litmus test for your theories on how bad this county is.  How many people leave this country on rafts, homemade boats, or just illegally immigrate to other countries to get away from the extreme poverty and oppression taking place here?  Now, how many do those things just to get a chance to call this country home?  We may not be perfect but we are a damn sight better than most alternatives.

I noticed you ignored my rebuttal of your accusation of me having no moral compass or humanity just like you did the last time we had this discussion, good because you have no leg to stand on.  I live a life of compassion for others I donít just rant about it on the internet.  If you canít talk with others who differ from you with some modicum of respect then you should refrain from doing so until you grow up a bit. You routinely talk down to those that hold different views than you.  You act like you have a moral authority that is, well imagined.  You are no better than I am or any other poor schlub trying to make it in this world. You can think your poop donít stink because you chose to swallow the blue pill instead of the red but in all honesty all of the poop stinks, its poop. I remained respectful to you until you started basically calling me immoral and implying many other things. For a while I just avoided posting anything political here until Crew encouraged me to return to the fray awhile back. So, I guess in hindsight I did give in to a type of cancel culture I allowed your behavior to detour me from sharing my input on discussions.     

Offline BojackHorsefella

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Re: Gina Carano
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2020, 04:04:59 PM »
Lets go through a few of these!



The market place of ideas eliminates things like racism and unjust beliefs because it allows them to be in the daylight for all to see. 

How's that working out? Is that why racism has been conquered in the US? Is that why our institutions are free of racist influence, and we live in a time without racial strife? It's funny, you say you haven't heard that saying since 8th grade, as I actively mocked the usage of it by referencing it to Ben Shapiro, and then you go and praise the idea. "The marketplace of ideas" is yet another BS rhetoric, that was the point, and then you praised it.

You are displaying the exact behavior I am talking about ďbe more careful with your wordsĒ why because I might offend someone?

No, because you're not choosing your words carefully, and are actively promoting the kind of apathy and lack of empathy that the alt-right thrives on. I'm sure it's exhausting everyday seeing people up in arms about some new "social justice" deal. Imagine how exhausting it feels to not be able to unplug from that, when you're black, when you're trans, when you're homosexual. That's our privilege, Rigg, that's my point. You decry the mob, but you don't decry the conditions that created the mob.

Every point you made in the paragraph is irrelevant because I did not advocate or even comment regarding any of those issues. 

I feel like I covered this in my response above, but again, your apathy and disregard ARE a comment in and of themselves.

They are paid to do a job. Play a sport, pretend to be another person on film, write a book.    Literally nothing in my post was left or right.

Laura Ingraham: Stick to sports!

The movement by the NBA has been incredible, and is possible because they are players of means due to their talent. Yes, it's an idealist view, but in an ideal world, prominent public figures would use their platform to promote social good. Again, to the point of Gina, they shouldn't be harassed or what have you, but, to repeat myself yet again, decrying this mob without decrying the conditions that created the mob is in and of itself ignoring the real issues underneath. It's not that hard to go "yeah, well, that's Twitter," but instead, there was some lecture about groupthink and cancel culture.

How many people leave this country on rafts, homemade boats, or just illegally immigrate to other countries to get away from the extreme poverty and oppression taking place here?  Now, how many do those things just to get a chance to call this country home?  We may not be perfect but we are a damn sight better than most alternatives.


Is that where the bar is? Do you realize we're STILL banned from travelling to most countries right now? We have the most coronavirus deaths. Healthcare is a nightmare in America. Immigration is, of course, down during the Trump admin (regardless of politics, it's no secret that was the Trump admin's goal, so whether it's down as a matter of policy or as a matter of foreigners being afraid to now come here, I imagine it's a bit of both).

This right here sums up so many of my issues with your posts, Rigg. You act like the status quo is fine. It's not fine. I get that it works for you and me and we get to live our little lives and make out well for our families and such, but for the majority of Americans, especially minorities, it's not working. That's without going into wealth divides. The problem is the deeper underlying core beliefs, the "This is fine" mentality where what you're used to is OK, even if what you're used to is horrible. There's a reason there's been this growing "politically correct" movement, it's a movement for people, and, along with democratic socialism, is trying to fix these very injustices baked into our system. I answer your "things could be worse" with a humble "yes, but things could be so, so much better." Yet, the very idea of treating people with dignity and respect is considered some sort of "radical left" proposition.

I live a life of compassion for others I donít just rant about it on the internet.  If you canít talk with others who differ from you with some modicum of respect then you should refrain from doing so until you grow up a bit. blue pill instead of the red  

And here we have the problem. There is no blue pill. There is no red pill. Labels are idiotic to begin with. It's not that hard to say, as a simple human being, I am for the equal treatment of all my fellow citizens. I am for social justice, be it BLM or what have you. And we have to realize, these matters we're discussing here, they're not opinion. Yes, that's my belief. It's not opinion. To me, it is a truth, and it is a truth many Americans in this country either don't want to deal with, don't want to face, or just simply oppose. Americans lack empathy and compassion, and we see it now with the mask protests, with the taunts and jabs. You ask people to sacrifice for others, for those who are more vulnerable, and you get met with this lack of empathy. You decry the mob calling for compassion, calling for empathy, but you don't call out the fact the reason these cries are coming is these people have faced true oppression, true violation of their rights, while those decrying "cancel culture" have only had the impression of such, because they haven't actually faced true adversity.

I commend you on your home life, and that you're able to carry yourself locally in a way that you can sleep at night, and that leaves you feeling that you contributed to your community. I can do the same. I only hope you can broaden your mind to a larger reality, beyond Democrat/Republican, to intrinsic truths of humanity and civilization. While I don't think America is what you think it is, I still think it can get there, even as it faces it's greatest obstacles ever this year. But I simply cannot agree with the statements you've made in this thread.

Online Crewe

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Re: Gina Carano
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2020, 05:26:03 PM »
She elected to not cave in and that doesnt mean she doesnt care. I get the feeling she does care, but the beep bop boop in my mind was a quiet fuck you, I will not acquiesce to your ridiculous demands. Who the fuck are you anyway?
That's the spirit I take away from this whole thing.

But there's a reason people put those pronouns into their profiles: it's to normalize it for both the trans-community and non-binary folks, who do use those pronouns in their profiles to avoid misgendering
. However, it also puts a target on their back for the online bigots, and thus the proliferation of pronouns across the site. I don't have them in my profile on Twitter because I don't tweet, ever, literally, I only read stuff on the site plus I'm certainly not a person of any prominence, but I do have them in my email signature at work, all for the purpose of helping to normalize pronoun usage at my workplace.

Again, I'm not saying she had to add the pronouns to her Twitter, and I'm not saying she should lose her job on the Mandalorian because of the beep/boop/bop nonsense. But it was a childish and misguided response. It's a case of "everyone reacted in the worst way possible," from the people harassing her to Gina's response, and unfortunately, it results in the erasure of the actual victims and issue.

I understand the purpose, but I'm suggesting that she took the stance that, a) the photo had nothing to do with trans people, b) had nothing to do with ACAB or BLM, but yet, that's the mess she found herself in through no action or comment of her own.
And worse, instead of trying to converse with her to see if there was a misunderstanding in her meaning, she was literally bullied in to doing something that was well beyond her intent. hence the beep bop boop being a fuck you.
She saw it as cyber bullying, and honestly, I do too, but Twitter sees it as her being a transphobe.

Ill mostly agree with the last part and I do think we are in the same book if not the same page, but I dont think she was childish, I think it was a measured response to bully tactics for which she has a history of opposing. Would it had been better to not say anything? Sure. Especially in her position. But she felt just as strong about her cause as the Twitter user's did about theirs. Ill add, Gina's response is directly related to the shit storm thrust upon her. She did nothing to warrant the onslaught against her.

Offline Rigg44

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Re: Gina Carano
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2020, 05:41:08 PM »
She elected to not cave in and that doesnt mean she doesnt care. I get the feeling she does care, but the beep bop boop in my mind was a quiet fuck you, I will not acquiesce to your ridiculous demands. Who the fuck are you anyway?
That's the spirit I take away from this whole thing.

But there's a reason people put those pronouns into their profiles: it's to normalize it for both the trans-community and non-binary folks, who do use those pronouns in their profiles to avoid misgendering
. However, it also puts a target on their back for the online bigots, and thus the proliferation of pronouns across the site. I don't have them in my profile on Twitter because I don't tweet, ever, literally, I only read stuff on the site plus I'm certainly not a person of any prominence, but I do have them in my email signature at work, all for the purpose of helping to normalize pronoun usage at my workplace.

Again, I'm not saying she had to add the pronouns to her Twitter, and I'm not saying she should lose her job on the Mandalorian because of the beep/boop/bop nonsense. But it was a childish and misguided response. It's a case of "everyone reacted in the worst way possible," from the people harassing her to Gina's response, and unfortunately, it results in the erasure of the actual victims and issue.

I understand the purpose, but I'm suggesting that she took the stance that, a) the photo had nothing to do with trans people, b) had nothing to do with ACAB or BLM, but yet, that's the mess she found herself in through no action or comment of her own.
And worse, instead of trying to converse with her to see if there was a misunderstanding in her meaning, she was literally bullied in to doing something that was well beyond her intent. hence the beep bop boop being a fuck you.
She saw it as cyber bullying, and honestly, I do too, but Twitter sees it as her being a transphobe.

Ill mostly agree with the last part and I do think we are in the same book if not the same page, but I dont think she was childish, I think it was a measured response to bully tactics for which she has a history of opposing. Would it had been better to not say anything? Sure. Especially in her position. But she felt just as strong about her cause as the Twitter user's did about theirs. Ill add, Gina's response is directly related to the shit storm thrust upon her. She did nothing to warrant the onslaught against her.

Agree with all of what you said.

 

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