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Author Topic: Gina Carano  (Read 656 times)

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Offline Rigg44

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Re: Gina Carano
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2020, 06:46:10 PM »
Lets go through a few of these!



The market place of ideas eliminates things like racism and unjust beliefs because it allows them to be in the daylight for all to see. 

How's that working out? Is that why racism has been conquered in the US? Is that why our institutions are free of racist influence, and we live in a time without racial strife? It's funny, you say you haven't heard that saying since 8th grade, as I actively mocked the usage of it by referencing it to Ben Shapiro, and then you go and praise the idea. "The marketplace of ideas" is yet another BS rhetoric, that was the point, and then you praised it.

You are displaying the exact behavior I am talking about ďbe more careful with your wordsĒ why because I might offend someone?

No, because you're not choosing your words carefully, and are actively promoting the kind of apathy and lack of empathy that the alt-right thrives on. I'm sure it's exhausting everyday seeing people up in arms about some new "social justice" deal. Imagine how exhausting it feels to not be able to unplug from that, when you're black, when you're trans, when you're homosexual. That's our privilege, Rigg, that's my point. You decry the mob, but you don't decry the conditions that created the mob.

Every point you made in the paragraph is irrelevant because I did not advocate or even comment regarding any of those issues. 

I feel like I covered this in my response above, but again, your apathy and disregard ARE a comment in and of themselves.

They are paid to do a job. Play a sport, pretend to be another person on film, write a book.    Literally nothing in my post was left or right.

Laura Ingraham: Stick to sports!

The movement by the NBA has been incredible, and is possible because they are players of means due to their talent. Yes, it's an idealist view, but in an ideal world, prominent public figures would use their platform to promote social good. Again, to the point of Gina, they shouldn't be harassed or what have you, but, to repeat myself yet again, decrying this mob without decrying the conditions that created the mob is in and of itself ignoring the real issues underneath. It's not that hard to go "yeah, well, that's Twitter," but instead, there was some lecture about groupthink and cancel culture.

How many people leave this country on rafts, homemade boats, or just illegally immigrate to other countries to get away from the extreme poverty and oppression taking place here?  Now, how many do those things just to get a chance to call this country home?  We may not be perfect but we are a damn sight better than most alternatives.


Is that where the bar is? Do you realize we're STILL banned from travelling to most countries right now? We have the most coronavirus deaths. Healthcare is a nightmare in America. Immigration is, of course, down during the Trump admin (regardless of politics, it's no secret that was the Trump admin's goal, so whether it's down as a matter of policy or as a matter of foreigners being afraid to now come here, I imagine it's a bit of both).

This right here sums up so many of my issues with your posts, Rigg. You act like the status quo is fine. It's not fine. I get that it works for you and me and we get to live our little lives and make out well for our families and such, but for the majority of Americans, especially minorities, it's not working. That's without going into wealth divides. The problem is the deeper underlying core beliefs, the "This is fine" mentality where what you're used to is OK, even if what you're used to is horrible. There's a reason there's been this growing "politically correct" movement, it's a movement for people, and, along with democratic socialism, is trying to fix these very injustices baked into our system. I answer your "things could be worse" with a humble "yes, but things could be so, so much better." Yet, the very idea of treating people with dignity and respect is considered some sort of "radical left" proposition.

I live a life of compassion for others I donít just rant about it on the internet.  If you canít talk with others who differ from you with some modicum of respect then you should refrain from doing so until you grow up a bit. blue pill instead of the red  

And here we have the problem. There is no blue pill. There is no red pill. Labels are idiotic to begin with. It's not that hard to say, as a simple human being, I am for the equal treatment of all my fellow citizens. I am for social justice, be it BLM or what have you. And we have to realize, these matters we're discussing here, they're not opinion. Yes, that's my belief. It's not opinion. To me, it is a truth, and it is a truth many Americans in this country either don't want to deal with, don't want to face, or just simply oppose. Americans lack empathy and compassion, and we see it now with the mask protests, with the taunts and jabs. You ask people to sacrifice for others, for those who are more vulnerable, and you get met with this lack of empathy. You decry the mob calling for compassion, calling for empathy, but you don't call out the fact the reason these cries are coming is these people have faced true oppression, true violation of their rights, while those decrying "cancel culture" have only had the impression of such, because they haven't actually faced true adversity.

I commend you on your home life, and that you're able to carry yourself locally in a way that you can sleep at night, and that leaves you feeling that you contributed to your community. I can do the same. I only hope you can broaden your mind to a larger reality, beyond Democrat/Republican, to intrinsic truths of humanity and civilization. While I don't think America is what you think it is, I still think it can get there, even as it faces it's greatest obstacles ever this year. But I simply cannot agree with the statements you've made in this thread.

Well lets go through a few of these

How's that working out?
The county is less racist now than it has ever been.  It's not perfect or where we want to be but it is better and getting better.  Congress is the most racially diverse its ever been (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/02/08/for-the-fifth-time-in-a-row-the-new-congress-is-the-most-racially-and-ethnically-diverse-ever/)
  While Pro sports has a ways to go there are more minority coaches now than ever. (https://theundefeated.com/features/black-coaches-cleveland-tyronn-lue-golden-state-mike-brown-nba-finals-first-time-since-1975/)
 Not to mention I grew up in a time that black Qbís were a rarity and now they make up a large portion of the Qb population in the NFL.  For the start of the 2020 NFL season, 10 of the league's 32 starting quarterbacks were black, the most in one week in NFL history. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_starting_black_NFL_quarterbacks#:~:text=It%20was%20not%20until%202017,one%20week%20in%20NFL%20history.)

One I canít gather resources for but can say it because it's self-evident.  It's not that long ago that a person like Don Lemon wouldnít have been allowed on air and never would have been allowed to say what he says.  It's not that long ago that Lebron James would have been fearful for his livelihood or even his life for being as vocal as he is.
There will never be a time that racism doesnít exist in this or any other country.  Even in countries that are for the most part made up of the same race they find other reasons to hate each other, religion, same religion different sect, wrong family, wrong political party. The point is you will never eradicate racism or hatred form the earth.  Should we try yes and we are.  We are a long way from segregated society and socially accepted racism. There are more examples but I know you will only dismiss them offhand and again act like we are living in the most oppressive society ever, ironically if you were living in that society you would not be allowed to say so.

  You are displaying the exact behavior I am talking about ďbe more careful with your wordsĒ why because I might offend someone?


I donít have to choose my words carefully because I said nothing offensive. I used the word mob to describe those attacking Gina because it accurately describes those people.  I used the term cancel culture because itís a real thing and its what they are trying to do to her by asking for her job over literally nothing.




Every point you made in the paragraph is irrelevant because I did not advocate or even comment regarding any of those issues.

What apathy are you talking about?  I have literally said they deserve to be treated humanly and be allowed to live their lives as they choose.  What exactly is apathetic about that?  Is it only good enough if I swear allegiance to every issue, they have blindly tied myself to a cause?  If so, thatís called being bullied into supporting something, much like they are trying to do to Gina. You point out a specific injustice and I will fight with you on that issue but I won't blindly support any movement because no movement is 100% right all the time.

They are paid to do a job. Play a sport, pretend to be another person on film, write a book.   

So, you are double speaking.  They donít have to make a statement but if they donít then they are part of the problem.  In other words, they donít have a choice, think this way, support this cause, or lose your career.  Fascist much?

How many people leave this country on rafts

I believe in my own post I said things could be better.  All socialism will get you is poverty for all, but why pay attention to every country that has tried it. Donít try and use Denmark as a rebuttal, even they say they are not socialist, they have a capitalist economy. (https://www.vox.com/2015/10/31/9650030/denmark-prime-minister-bernie-sanders)
You read into things a lot; do you realize that? I have never once said the status quo is great and there is no room for improvement.  I have said all people should be treated with compassion no matter their beliefs. I have said that no one should be mistreated for their given lifestyle.  You can not go two-seconds without mentioning Trump in an argument: do you realize that?  He literally has nothing to do with this conversation yet you keep bringing him up as if he proves some point.
As to whether should the bar be people wanting to risk life and limb to get into this country? Yes, it should.  If this country were half as bad as you think it is they would not want to be here. You are a product of privileged.  You set in a county that affords you the freedom to do as you wish be who you wish and you cant see it.  I believe in the constitution and the dream of a people governing itself.  A government answerable to the people. A land where all men are created equal and afforded equal opportunity but not guarantees equal outcome.  Is that what we have now? Yes and no. In many ways we are there in others we have miles to go. We are not perfect but we are better than the other options as a whole. Much like personal growth, we will never reach an end growth is indefinate. 

I live a life of compassion for others I donít just rant about it on the internet.
The problem with everything you just said is its gibberish.  I am an independent and donít vote for party affiliation, which I have told you the past.  I would say on a local level this last election I voted 70% democrat about 50/50 on the state level and about 60% republican on the federal level.
I spoke of the mob because it was the subject of our discussion regarding Gina.  I am not obligated to cry out in every discussion about underlying oppression especially when it had nothing to do with what we were talking about. I would argue that by being there for real people I actually know in their times of need I am making more of a real impact for change than a hundred internet warriors crying out for change in an echo chamber.
There you ago again attacking me, claiming I lack empathy or compassion for others. How do you make these judgments?  I have said nothing to give even an ounce of credence to your assertions.

Offline BojackHorsefella

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Re: Gina Carano
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2020, 07:38:50 PM »
Well lets go through a few of these

The county is less racist now than it has ever been.  It's not perfect or where we want to be but it is better and getting better.  Congress is the most racially diverse its ever been (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/02/08/for-the-fifth-time-in-a-row-the-new-congress-is-the-most-racially-and-ethnically-diverse-ever/)
  While Pro sports has a ways to go there are more minority coaches now than ever. (https://theundefeated.com/features/black-coaches-cleveland-tyronn-lue-golden-state-mike-brown-nba-finals-first-time-since-1975/)
 Not to mention I grew up in a time that black Qbís were a rarity and now they make up a large portion of the Qb population in the NFL.  For the start of the 2020 NFL season, 10 of the league's 32 starting quarterbacks were black, the most in one week in NFL history. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_starting_black_NFL_quarterbacks#:~:text=It%20was%20not%20until%202017,one%20week%20in%20NFL%20history.)


Using the NFL? Kaep says hello.


The point is you will never eradicate racism or hatred form the earth.  Should we try yes and we are.  We are a long way from segregated society and socially accepted racism.

You may be right, however, what we can do is fight against institutional bigotry. Again, bigotry is not only baked into the fabric of the American psyche, it's baked into our justice system, our education system, hell, even our political system. Do we have racial diversity in Congress? To an extent. It could be far better. And yet, we see polling places closing in majority African American counties. We've already seen mail in ballots delivered at far, far slower rates from African American communities.

That's the point of all of these movements you see. You look around at America and say "Hey, I have it pretty good here." Others don't have that. You say "guaranteed opportunity, not outcome," but that's not true. It's very clear that, in many states, in many counties, there's an implicit bias against their minority citizens, built into their laws, their legislature. You say it wasn't that long ago that Don Lemon couldn't say the things he says, that Lebron James couldn't. Exactly! It WASN'T that long ago, and yet, we act like it was ages ago and everything's been fixed and should be good now.



I used the term cancel culture because itís a real thing

Again, we just have to agree to disagree on this one.



I won't blindly support any movement because no movement is 100% right all the time.

Then don't support a movement. I already said labels are stupid. It's not that hard to recognize when injustice is occurring and call it out for what it is, yes, even in an online forum. It is imperative we call out ideological fallacies.

They donít have to make a statement but if they donít then they are part of the problem. 

Again, you've misinterpreted what I said. I even prefaced it with, "in an ideal world." I understand not every athlete, celebrity, is going to speak out. I even said they should not be harassed if they don't. But the simple truth is, morally, ethically, yes, people in positions power have an obligation to use their power to promote the social good. If they fail to act on it (and most do, because wading into "politics" even when it's a human rights conversation and not a political one never ends well and unfortunately 'personal branding" is our one true god these days), well, that's on their character, and no, sending them death threats via Twitter isn't the solution. You just have to swallow that disappointment and move on.

For the record, this goes beyond athletes. You mention below, I come from privilege for having grown up in America, and having the opportunities America afforded me. That's the thing though. With having that opportunity, those who do achieve (athletes, Bezos, etc), have a moral and ethical duty, not to keep those below them down, but to uplift all. Yes, again, that is a core belief of mine, not my opinion. If you've "got yours," it's your duty, not to expand "yours," not to "continue to roll mine into greater amounts." It's now your responsibility to lift up those in poverty, whether that be through financial donations, charity work, TAXES, or donating to political candidates that espouse these values.


I have said all people should be treated with compassion no matter their beliefs.   You can not go two-seconds without mentioning Trump in an argument: do you realize that?

"No matter their beliefs" is a broad statement, and you have to realize that, at this present time in 2020, there's an ideological belief out there that, basically, minorities don't need to be treated as human, liberals should be shot on sight, and the media along with them. You say I bring up Trump every 2 seconds, the fact of the matter is, he's the personification of this kind of ideology. No, he did not invent it, you're right. But the right has rallied behind it through him, because for some strange reason, he can say and do all sorts of awful things and just, has 0 accountability, so they're hopped on that bandwagon. It's no secret we've seen a rise in hate crimes since he took office. It's no secret we've seen the rights stripped from trans citizens, we've seen, quite frankly, human rights violations against many of our own citizens under this. And yet, I keep seeing this talk of "no matter their beliefs." And we justify it, we say "it's just politics, every politician is like this." No. No. That's the apathy I'm talking about. People want to sit there and act like "this is the discourse, as usual." No, I refuse that.

The fact of the matter is, we have seen a sweeping rise of actual, religious, conservative fascism in America. The fact of the matter is, there are many in our government actively working to restrict bodily autonomy of our citizens, be it our trans individuals, be it our women. That's true fascism, and yet, people like to act like "Hey, this person doesn't deserve to be in this country" is somehow equal to "Hey, we should be more inclusive" in terms of offensiveness. It's absolutely mind boggling.

You have to understand, this is an ideological discussion, and the dangerous ideas coming from the right side of the aisle will result in, simply, death and catastrophe. And, again, we treat it like, "separating families and their children are fine, building a giant, money-suck of a wall is fine, diverting COVID relief funds to military weaponry is fine, but heaven forbid we have universal healthcare," as if THAT'S the radical idea. I push, because the Overton window has already been pushed so far to the right, it needs to go back left. They call Joe Biden a progressive. Ha! Our perspective on ideological grounds has been skewed, and if you can't recognize that from the start of the conversation, then we're simply just going to be on separate pages.

 You are a product of privileged.  You set in a county that affords you the freedom to do as you wish be who you wish and you cant see it.

Yeah, I can. I'm a white male. Now tell me how many more black people have to be shot by cops just for being black in the wrong place at the wrong time? You and I have that privilege because don't have to fear every time we walk outside that someone is going to take offense to how we're parked, how we're driving, how we said something, and call the cops on us and then we get shot to death.

We don't have to worry, that we'll go out to the bar and hit on someone, only for them to kill us when they find out we're trans.

My god, you call it out towards me and you don't recognize your own?

I am not obligated to cry out in every discussion about underlying oppression especially when it had nothing to do with what we were talking about.

Correct, but then you cried out about "cancel culture" as it's own oppression, which, again, I understand what you're saying, but "people yelling on Twitter" is not "people are protesting my very right to exist." It's poor behavior and bad character, it is not oppression.   

Rigg, we're clearly not going to agree on, well, anything. I'm certainly more than willing to continue this if you'd like, but, I get off work in 90 minutes and I don't post these lengthy comments on mobile, so, lets go with agree to disagree and move on.

Offline Crewe

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Re: Gina Carano
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2020, 10:58:13 AM »
I saw Carano posted about her account on the Parlor app. She has always been guarded about her political leanings and I respect that given her status. It's obvious she leaned right and that's fine, but now that I know she buys in to all the conspiracy theories and rage....yea, Mandalorian is going to be a lot less fun this time around for me.

 

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