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Author Topic: Do You Remember.....  (Read 11562 times)

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Offline BojackHorsefella

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Re: Do You Remember.....
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2019, 04:07:22 PM »
Need to check out some photos from any of those Proud Boy rallies. Or, you know, Charlottesville.

To be fair, ONE Nazi insignia being worn in public is already a lot in the US, and yet....

Offline Rigg44

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Re: Do You Remember.....
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2019, 04:15:27 PM »
Need to check out some photos from any of those Proud Boy rallies. Or, you know, Charlottesville.

To be fair, ONE Nazi insignia being worn in public is already a lot in the US, and yet....

In the public eye doesn't make it a lot.  A lot to me would be a daily occurrence not some publicity stunt or protest by some chuckleheads.  You make it sound like its a socially accepted or even tolerated thing on a mass level which it is not.  To infer otherwise is absurd.   

Offline BojackHorsefella

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Re: Do You Remember.....
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2019, 04:37:10 PM »
I mean, agree to disagree, but as a Jewish person living in America, seeing people marching in Charlottesville with Nazi symbols on their clothes and "shields," and then a president who says "both sides" had bad people, yeah, again, even 1 in the public eye is far too many.

And you keep saying chuckleheads as if domestic attacks by white supremacist groups haven't been on the rise since 2016. We can bury our head in the sand if we so desire, but I don't think we'll like where that ends up.

Offline Rigg44

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Re: Do You Remember.....
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2019, 05:20:33 PM »
I mean, agree to disagree, but as a Jewish person living in America, seeing people marching in Charlottesville with Nazi symbols on their clothes and "shields," and then a president who says "both sides" had bad people, yeah, again, even 1 in the public eye is far too many.

And you keep saying chuckleheads as if domestic attacks by white supremacist groups haven't been on the rise since 2016. We can bury our head in the sand if we so desire, but I don't think we'll like where that ends up.

There is no disagreement that its wrong the disagreement is over it's your implications of overwhelming presence.  Seeing these symbols in news footage being worn by idiots or chuckleheads (I don't know how you found that offensive) is the price of living in a society with free speech.  The laws and 99% of the country are not in favor of the wearing of or the implication behind the wearing of these symbols.  To think otherwise is absurd. It would be like thinking that just because there is one very public antisemite within the Democratic Party spewing vile things on a regular basis that all Democrats or a majority are antisemites.  We, of course, no this is not true because there are Jewish members of the Democratic party and a large number of Jewish people in the party as a whole.   To think there are no neo-nazi idiots in the US is just as childish but they are not the mainstream or even taken seriously by anyone of any reasonable intelligence.   

Offline Crewe

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Re: Do You Remember.....
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2019, 05:31:19 PM »
I mean, agree to disagree, but as a Jewish person living in America, seeing people marching in Charlottesville with Nazi symbols on their clothes and "shields," and then a president who says "both sides" had bad people, yeah, again, even 1 in the public eye is far too many.

And you keep saying chuckleheads as if domestic attacks by white supremacist groups haven't been on the rise since 2016. We can bury our head in the sand if we so desire, but I don't think we'll like where that ends up.

There is no disagreement that its wrong the disagreement is over it's your implications of overwhelming presence.  Seeing these symbols in news footage being worn by idiots or chuckleheads (I don't know how you found that offensive) is the price of living in a society with free speech.  The laws and 99% of the country are not in favor of the wearing of or the implication behind the wearing of these symbols.  To think otherwise is absurd. It would be like thinking that just because there is one very public antisemite within the Democratic Party spewing vile things on a regular basis that all Democrats or a majority are antisemites.  We, of course, no this is not true because there are Jewish members of the Democratic party and a large number of Jewish people in the party as a whole.   To think there are no neo-nazi idiots in the US is just as childish but they are not the mainstream or even taken seriously by anyone of any reasonable intelligence.   

drive through East Texas...

Offline BojackHorsefella

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Re: Do You Remember.....
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2019, 06:23:56 PM »
So, real fast, Omar is not an anti-semite. Real easy this one: criticizing a lobbying group whose entire purpose of existing is to spend money to influence our government in foreign affairs is not anti-Semitic, and criticizing Israel, especially while Netanyahu continues to commit atrocities and corrupting the Israeli government at the same time is not anti-Semitic, it's truth.

Meanwhile, again, say what you want about "a few chuckleheads," these people were marching, in Charlottesville, saying "Jews will not replace us," and the president of the US said "this is fine."

Steve King, in the GOP, literally called himself a "white nationalist," and has been shown in the past week (amongst other GOP members) to have had white supremacists, namely Proud Boys, on his payroll. So, yeah, don't play that game with me.

Offline Rigg44

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Re: Do You Remember.....
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2019, 11:37:51 AM »
I mean, agree to disagree, but as a Jewish person living in America, seeing people marching in Charlottesville with Nazi symbols on their clothes and "shields," and then a president who says "both sides" had bad people, yeah, again, even 1 in the public eye is far too many.

And you keep saying chuckleheads as if domestic attacks by white supremacist groups haven't been on the rise since 2016. We can bury our head in the sand if we so desire, but I don't think we'll like where that ends up.

There is no disagreement that its wrong the disagreement is over it's your implications of overwhelming presence.  Seeing these symbols in news footage being worn by idiots or chuckleheads (I don't know how you found that offensive) is the price of living in a society with free speech.  The laws and 99% of the country are not in favor of the wearing of or the implication behind the wearing of these symbols.  To think otherwise is absurd. It would be like thinking that just because there is one very public antisemite within the Democratic Party spewing vile things on a regular basis that all Democrats or a majority are antisemites.  We, of course, no this is not true because there are Jewish members of the Democratic party and a large number of Jewish people in the party as a whole.   To think there are no neo-nazi idiots in the US is just as childish but they are not the mainstream or even taken seriously by anyone of any reasonable intelligence.   

drive through East Texas...

Well, again one section of any region is not mainstream.  Mainstream would be the majority of the country agreeing with or accepting the behavior as "normal"  and that is not the case.  Also I have been through east Texas a lot in the past and never saw Nazi symbols displayed.

Offline Rigg44

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Re: Do You Remember.....
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2019, 11:57:25 AM »
So, real fast, Omar is not an anti-semite. Real easy this one: criticizing a lobbying group whose entire purpose of existing is to spend money to influence our government in foreign affairs is not anti-Semitic, and criticizing Israel, especially while Netanyahu continues to commit atrocities and corrupting the Israeli government at the same time is not anti-Semitic, it's truth.

Meanwhile, again, say what you want about "a few chuckleheads," these people were marching, in Charlottesville, saying "Jews will not replace us," and the president of the US said "this is fine."

Steve King, in the GOP, literally called himself a "white nationalist," and has been shown in the past week (amongst other GOP members) to have had white supremacists, namely Proud Boys, on his payroll. So, yeah, don't play that game with me.

Ohmar is an Anti Semit, and to defend her invalidates your arguments against Trump. You can't have it both ways you have to call out bad actors no matter their party.  As far as  Charlottesville, nothing you have said proves any form of mainstream acceptance.  A group marching for the wrong reasons doesn't make something mainstream. They are idiots. You continue to mistake me for a Trump supporter.  As I have said in the past I am no fan of Trump and in fact a registered independent.  I find myself having to defend the idiot because no one wants to be objective anymore.  The talking points from both parties are swallowed whole are regurgitated like gospel, it's just sad.  I did not like everything Obama did and said it.  I also praised him when he did something good.  Its called being objective.  Trump is not an answer to the question of how this is mainstream.  The majority of Americans are not Nazis, nor are they racists.   

Offline BojackHorsefella

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Re: Do You Remember.....
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2019, 12:14:14 PM »
We're going to have to go back to agreeing to disagree, then. The dangers of entertaining these people, constantly giving them platforms (Alex Jones, Tucker Carlson, really all of Fox News) has taken it's toll after years and years and years. You say the majority of America is not racist, yet they voted for a truly racist president who started his campaign by calling Mexicans rapists and drug dealers, instituting an extremely racist travel ban against Muslim countries (and not even the countries that have actual ties to terrorism), and seems to only insult people's IQs if they're black.

You're ignoring a very real danger to this country. Trump is what he is, he always has been. He's not a complex person, he's just a bigoted idiot that caught the wave of national populism, which is growing across the globe (hey there Bolsonaro) and rode it right into the White House. Now, we have an intemperate, whiny man-child on the Supreme Court in Brett Kavanaugh, but worse is the federal judges that Trump has been approving left and right up and down the federal courts, and unlike his campaign promises, he['s not nominating "the best and the brightest," he nominates those whose views align with him (again, Kavanaugh). Not too mention the grift of the whole thing.

Point is, this "minority" you talk about, elevated Trump. Sure, not everyone is racist, but plenty of people were willing to look at Trump's blatant racism and go "that's acceptable to me," because they thought he was, I dunno, I guess actually going to make America great again.

You yourself don't have to be a Trump supporter, and I don't believe I called you one, to make my points valid. You're playing the "they're all the same game," which is how we got here in the first place. We keep seeing the company that Trump keeps pleading guilty and heading to prison, and yet his supporters, even if you don't consider yourself one, continue to defend him. Fox News continues to defend him, and those who have truly drank the Kool-Aid, continue to defend them.

If you don't want to be convinced that white supremacy in 2019 is the greatest threat to American democracy right now, then I don't know what to tell you. But I do know, in those tapes that just released from Tucker Carlson's radio call-ins, he explicitly said that America needed a racist President. There are many Fox News viewers who, I'm sure, agreed with those sentiments upon hearing them when they were released, and were especially happy since they got their wish.

Now, you want to continue to engage in the bad faith arguments and ignoring the actual issues here, then feel free to go ahead. But just going "it's alright" isn't going to fix anything, and is the exact kind of attitude so many people had in 2016 to lead us to where we are today: divided, with our government in absolute shambles (the State Department is still a ghost town, and we are missing ambassadors to many, many countries, and why the fuck are Jared and Ivanka handling ANY foreign relations?)

You don't have to be a Trump supporter to defend him, but you do have to be willing to overlook a LOT OF BAD STUFF that he has done, is doing, and likely will do (just look at Cohen's "it will not be a peaceful transition of power" if Trump wins).

Hell, you want to get past the racism stuff, how about just the journalism stuff? Anytime a Muslim man commits a crime in this country, everyone screams "WHERE WAS HE RADICALIZED" or "WHY WON'T HIS COMMUNITY POLICE HIM?!" Meanwhile, we have a president everyday that calls journalists the enemy of the people and is saying awful, very out of the ordinary things about the opposition people, and then we get these fucking crazies who are RADICALIZED by his words that send bombs to Democrats and CNN or shoot up newspapers. It's really not that hard to see the correlation.

Or, hell, even that fucking LIEUTENANT in the military who was planning on carrying out a devastating domestic terror attack. Radicalization. We have a president who radicalizes domestic terrorists. So, no, don't tell me he's the same as any other president.

I don't really want to dignify you, telling me, a Jewish man, that Omar is an anti-semite. I've made my statement, you want to continue to take the bad faith argument. Meanwhile, again, you're talking about a Trump, the leader of a GOP party who constantly paints George Soros, a Jewish man, as some "money monster" who's ruining American politics (but the Koch brothers are fine, of course). So, no, you can get out of here with THAT BS. Omar wasn't saying anything wrong, again, criticizing a lobbying group whose entire purpose of existing is to influence foreign policy via financial contributions is NOT ANTI-SEMITISM, even if that country was Israel. Criticizing Israel's war crimes against Palestinians IS NOT ANTI-SEMITISM. Criticizing Netanyahu, a corrupt and horrifying leader, is NOT ANTI-SEMITISM.

But, again, the rampant anti-semitism displayed across the right (not too mention the Islamophobia) is just whatever, apparently. No sir. You really need to check yourself.

Offline Crewe

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Re: Do You Remember.....
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2019, 12:22:21 PM »
I mean, agree to disagree, but as a Jewish person living in America, seeing people marching in Charlottesville with Nazi symbols on their clothes and "shields," and then a president who says "both sides" had bad people, yeah, again, even 1 in the public eye is far too many.

And you keep saying chuckleheads as if domestic attacks by white supremacist groups haven't been on the rise since 2016. We can bury our head in the sand if we so desire, but I don't think we'll like where that ends up.

There is no disagreement that its wrong the disagreement is over it's your implications of overwhelming presence.  Seeing these symbols in news footage being worn by idiots or chuckleheads (I don't know how you found that offensive) is the price of living in a society with free speech.  The laws and 99% of the country are not in favor of the wearing of or the implication behind the wearing of these symbols.  To think otherwise is absurd. It would be like thinking that just because there is one very public antisemite within the Democratic Party spewing vile things on a regular basis that all Democrats or a majority are antisemites.  We, of course, no this is not true because there are Jewish members of the Democratic party and a large number of Jewish people in the party as a whole.   To think there are no neo-nazi idiots in the US is just as childish but they are not the mainstream or even taken seriously by anyone of any reasonable intelligence.   

drive through East Texas...

Well, again one section of any region is not mainstream.  Mainstream would be the majority of the country agreeing with or accepting the behavior as "normal"  and that is not the case.  Also I have been through east Texas a lot in the past and never saw Nazi symbols displayed.

Then by your definition, our President's behavior is not normal. And his views are well documented and you can fill in the blanks from there.

I was siding with you although I see it as more prevalent than you do, but not everywhere.
As for my east Texas comment, it was sort of in jest, in the sense that idling down I-10 is not going to seem out of place but you get off the interstate and you'll see what I mean or else your eyes are closed.

*edit - I just read buc's post and I certainly agree which sounds odd when I stated above that I also agree with rigg that it wasn't "everywhere."
I believe that in the sense that a majority of Americans are not racists. Especially the younger gens, however, thats not to say hate hasn't had a significant resurgence under our current political climate. Certainly enough to elect a President.

« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 12:50:24 PM by Crewe »

Offline Rigg44

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Re: Do You Remember.....
« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2019, 12:49:58 PM »
We're going to have to go back to agreeing to disagree, then. The dangers of entertaining these people, constantly giving them platforms (Alex Jones, Tucker Carlson, really all of Fox News) has taken it's toll after years and years and years. You say the majority of America is not racist, yet they voted for a truly racist president who started his campaign by calling Mexicans rapists and drug dealers, instituting an extremely racist travel ban against Muslim countries (and not even the countries that have actual ties to terrorism), and seems to only insult people's IQs if they're black.

You're ignoring a very real danger to this country. Trump is what he is, he always has been. He's not a complex person, he's just a bigoted idiot that caught the wave of national populism, which is growing across the globe (hey there Bolsonaro) and rode it right into the White House. Now, we have an intemperate, whiny man-child on the Supreme Court in Brett Kavanaugh, but worse is the federal judges that Trump has been approving left and right up and down the federal courts, and unlike his campaign promises, he['s not nominating "the best and the brightest," he nominates those whose views align with him (again, Kavanaugh). Not too mention the grift of the whole thing.

Point is, this "minority" you talk about, elevated Trump. Sure, not everyone is racist, but plenty of people were willing to look at Trump's blatant racism and go "that's acceptable to me," because they thought he was, I dunno, I guess actually going to make America great again.

You yourself don't have to be a Trump supporter, and I don't believe I called you one, to make my points valid. You're playing the "they're all the same game," which is how we got here in the first place. We keep seeing the company that Trump keeps pleading guilty and heading to prison, and yet his supporters, even if you don't consider yourself one, continue to defend him. Fox News continues to defend him, and those who have truly drank the Kool-Aid, continue to defend them.

If you don't want to be convinced that white supremacy in 2019 is the greatest threat to American democracy right now, then I don't know what to tell you. But I do know, in those tapes that just released from Tucker Carlson's radio call-ins, he explicitly said that America needed a racist President. There are many Fox News viewers who, I'm sure, agreed with those sentiments upon hearing them when they were released, and were especially happy since they got their wish.

Now, you want to continue to engage in the bad faith arguments and ignoring the actual issues here, then feel free to go ahead. But just going "it's alright" isn't going to fix anything, and is the exact kind of attitude so many people had in 2016 to lead us to where we are today: divided, with our government in absolute shambles (the State Department is still a ghost town, and we are missing ambassadors to many, many countries, and why the fuck are Jared and Ivanka handling ANY foreign relations?)

You don't have to be a Trump supporter to defend him, but you do have to be willing to overlook a LOT OF BAD STUFF that he has done, is doing, and likely will do (just look at Cohen's "it will not be a peaceful transition of power" if Trump wins).

Hell, you want to get past the racism stuff, how about just the journalism stuff? Anytime a Muslim man commits a crime in this country, everyone screams "WHERE WAS HE RADICALIZED" or "WHY WON'T HIS COMMUNITY POLICE HIM?!" Meanwhile, we have a president everyday that calls journalists the enemy of the people and is saying awful, very out of the ordinary things about the opposition people, and then we get these fucking crazies who are RADICALIZED by his words that send bombs to Democrats and CNN or shoot up newspapers. It's really not that hard to see the correlation.

Or, hell, even that fucking LIEUTENANT in the military who was planning on carrying out a devastating domestic terror attack. Radicalization. We have a president who radicalizes domestic terrorists. So, no, don't tell me he's the same as any other president.

I don't really want to dignify you, telling me, a Jewish man, that Omar is an anti-semite. I've made my statement, you want to continue to take the bad faith argument. Meanwhile, again, you're talking about a Trump, the leader of a GOP party who constantly paints George Soros, a Jewish man, as some "money monster" who's ruining American politics (but the Koch brothers are fine, of course). So, no, you can get out of here with THAT BS. Omar wasn't saying anything wrong, again, criticizing a lobbying group whose entire purpose of existing is to influence foreign policy via financial contributions is NOT ANTI-SEMITISM, even if that country was Israel. Criticizing Israel's war crimes against Palestinians IS NOT ANTI-SEMITISM. Criticizing Netanyahu, a corrupt and horrifying leader, is NOT ANTI-SEMITISM.

But, again, the rampant anti-semitism displayed across the right (not too mention the Islamophobia) is just whatever, apparently. No sir. You really need to check yourself.

You have just displayed the true reason this country is in trouble,  An inability to have a rational conversation across party lines.  Your being of Jewish background gives you a different perspective but it does not give you the unilateral power to determine what is or is not Anti-Semitic. Plenty of Jewish leaders on the other side disagree with your assessment of her but I am sure their motivation is political while yours is pure as the driven snow.  Also, you say that Trump's election proves the overwhelming racism in this country, then explain Obama's election. Are we to believe that all these racist people suddenly forgot and pulled the wrong lever?  To think that racism is worse now than it was in the 60's, 50's or hell even the 80's is just plain ignorant.  No one is being routinely shot, hung, kept from owning property, or being overtly kept "down" on a mass scale. If you refuse to see that the needle has moved further and further towards equality over the years and decades then it is you in need of a reality check.  Racism exists but it is limited to small groups or hidden individuals.  It will always be with us but it no longer rules us. I was avoiding being rude but you seem to not have a problem with it so.  Buc,  you are obviously overly emotional about these things and unable to divorce yourself from the conversation to have a logical, productive conversation. You obviously live and a CNN/ MSNBC echo chamber devoid of any two-sided conversation. I will allow you to have your echo chamber so your beliefs can be reinforced and never challenged because who needs the diversity of thought?  After all, I am a conservative white male so by your thought process I am probably just a racist, homophobe who loves me some guns and my bible.   
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 12:58:13 PM by Rigg44 »

Offline Rigg44

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Re: Do You Remember.....
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2019, 12:56:05 PM »
I mean, agree to disagree, but as a Jewish person living in America, seeing people marching in Charlottesville with Nazi symbols on their clothes and "shields," and then a president who says "both sides" had bad people, yeah, again, even 1 in the public eye is far too many.

And you keep saying chuckleheads as if domestic attacks by white supremacist groups haven't been on the rise since 2016. We can bury our head in the sand if we so desire, but I don't think we'll like where that ends up.

There is no disagreement that its wrong the disagreement is over it's your implications of overwhelming presence.  Seeing these symbols in news footage being worn by idiots or chuckleheads (I don't know how you found that offensive) is the price of living in a society with free speech.  The laws and 99% of the country are not in favor of the wearing of or the implication behind the wearing of these symbols.  To think otherwise is absurd. It would be like thinking that just because there is one very public antisemite within the Democratic Party spewing vile things on a regular basis that all Democrats or a majority are antisemites.  We, of course, no this is not true because there are Jewish members of the Democratic party and a large number of Jewish people in the party as a whole.   To think there are no neo-nazi idiots in the US is just as childish but they are not the mainstream or even taken seriously by anyone of any reasonable intelligence.   

drive through East Texas...

Well, again one section of any region is not mainstream.  Mainstream would be the majority of the country agreeing with or accepting the behavior as "normal"  and that is not the case.  Also I have been through east Texas a lot in the past and never saw Nazi symbols displayed.

Then by your definition, our President's behavior is not normal. And his views are well documented and you can fill in the blanks from there.

I was siding with you although I see it as more prevalent than you do, but not everywhere.
As for my east Texas comment, it was sort of in jest, in the sense that idling down I-10 is not going to seem out of place but you get off the interstate and you'll see what I mean or else your eyes are closed.

*edit - I just read buc's post and I certainly agree which sounds odd when I stated above that I also agree with rigg that it wasn't "everywhere."
I believe that in the sense that a majority of Americans are not racists. Especially the younger gens, however, thats not to say hate hasn't had a significant resurgence under our current political climate. Certainly enough to elect a President.

Crewe, I will concede you probably know east Texas better than I do.  However, Racism is not overwhelmingly accepted in the country.  I think we agree on that.  As far as a resurgence I think the fanning of what were embers by both sides has caused a resurgence among some idiotic Chucklheads.  I don't want to re litigate the president's words. He can speak for himself.  I don't agree with your interpretation of everything he has said but would agree that he is not a great human being.   

Offline BojackHorsefella

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Re: Do You Remember.....
« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2019, 01:11:31 PM »
No one is being routinely shot, hung, kept from owning property, or being overtly kept "down" on a mass scale. If you refuse to see that the needle has moved further and further towards equality over the years and decades then it is you in need of a reality check.  Racism exists but it is limited to small groups or hidden individuals.  It will always be with us but it no longer rules us. I was avoiding being rude but you seem to not have a problem with it so. 

So, firstly, you still have yet to give any definitive proof that Omar is anti-semtiic, so, keep telling me I'm the one being emotional.

No one is being kept down? Did you not see how an oil company was given domain over Native Americans at Standing Rock, who were attacked on THEIR land by our own police force? Have you not seen the BLM protests as continuously, we have seen police forces abuse their force against black men and black children (TAMIR RICE?!) and face 0 consequences for it.

Have you not seen the wealth inequality in this country that DISPROPORTIONATELY affects minorities?

Have you not seen Flint, Michigan, WHICH STILL DOES NOT HAVE CLEAN WATER and yet nobody in our government seems to care?

Have you not seen how North Carolina GOP just tried to rob an election using voter fraud tactics aimed against minorities?

Have you not seen how GEORGIA used similar tactics and got away with it, while Brian Kemp had a conflict of interest running for Governor while secretary of state?

Have you not seen how multiple states have attempted to institute voter ID laws which have beenproven as racially biased?

Gerrymandering? Asset forfeiture that indescriminately targets minorities?

We have children dying in cages, separated, without reason, from their parents who were deported, some adopted out with no hope of being reunited because our government couldn't bother to keep track of everything it was doing.

Racism is institutional, sir, and it is enforced at the county, state and national levels in a great degree, and that is the point. If you want to blind yourself to the injustices that have been created, not by the people, but by the political, educational, and economic systems of this country, that is YOUR issue. You say I've been rude, I haven't. I have leveled no insults or ad hominem attacks on you. But, if what I'm engaging in is "emotional," what you're engaging in is simply willful ignorance to the truth.

There are frequent injustices committed by the institutions that run this country, daily, against minorities, against women. So, sure, we don't separate drinking fountains or bathrooms these days, great. No, we've found methods now that aren't in the open, but are equally impacting, and we elected a president who's further seen to that.

If racism is a minority thing, then by god the majority has failed to defend against it, which makes them complicit.

Offline Crewe

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Re: Do You Remember.....
« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2019, 03:41:19 PM »
I mean, agree to disagree, but as a Jewish person living in America, seeing people marching in Charlottesville with Nazi symbols on their clothes and "shields," and then a president who says "both sides" had bad people, yeah, again, even 1 in the public eye is far too many.

And you keep saying chuckleheads as if domestic attacks by white supremacist groups haven't been on the rise since 2016. We can bury our head in the sand if we so desire, but I don't think we'll like where that ends up.

There is no disagreement that its wrong the disagreement is over it's your implications of overwhelming presence.  Seeing these symbols in news footage being worn by idiots or chuckleheads (I don't know how you found that offensive) is the price of living in a society with free speech.  The laws and 99% of the country are not in favor of the wearing of or the implication behind the wearing of these symbols.  To think otherwise is absurd. It would be like thinking that just because there is one very public antisemite within the Democratic Party spewing vile things on a regular basis that all Democrats or a majority are antisemites.  We, of course, no this is not true because there are Jewish members of the Democratic party and a large number of Jewish people in the party as a whole.   To think there are no neo-nazi idiots in the US is just as childish but they are not the mainstream or even taken seriously by anyone of any reasonable intelligence.   

drive through East Texas...

Well, again one section of any region is not mainstream.  Mainstream would be the majority of the country agreeing with or accepting the behavior as "normal"  and that is not the case.  Also I have been through east Texas a lot in the past and never saw Nazi symbols displayed.

Then by your definition, our President's behavior is not normal. And his views are well documented and you can fill in the blanks from there.

I was siding with you although I see it as more prevalent than you do, but not everywhere.
As for my east Texas comment, it was sort of in jest, in the sense that idling down I-10 is not going to seem out of place but you get off the interstate and you'll see what I mean or else your eyes are closed.

*edit - I just read buc's post and I certainly agree which sounds odd when I stated above that I also agree with rigg that it wasn't "everywhere."
I believe that in the sense that a majority of Americans are not racists. Especially the younger gens, however, thats not to say hate hasn't had a significant resurgence under our current political climate. Certainly enough to elect a President.

Crewe, I will concede you probably know east Texas better than I do.  However, Racism is not overwhelmingly accepted in the country.  I think we agree on thatAs far as a resurgence I think the fanning of what were embers by both sides has caused a resurgence among some idiotic Chucklheads.  I don't want to re litigate the president's words. He can speak for himself. I don't agree with your interpretation of everything he has said but would agree that he is not a great human being.

We do

But I don't agree with the second sentence. I think fewer individuals are racist but its still prevalent in media, business and folks who mold society.

Trump is a bona fide clown.

Offline Crewe

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Re: Do You Remember.....
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2019, 03:59:45 PM »
I just looked back to see what the topic actually was and to see I hijacked buc's simple observation with an Axis and Allies comment that devolved lol
Sorry man.  :D

 

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