News:

UFL Schedule comes out 2-5-2024

Main Menu

Im just so tired

Started by Crewe, May 14, 2020, 09:37:15 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Crewe

of the political landscape.
I've tuned out almost completely. Twitter has become almost as bad as FB was when I left.
Ok, not that bad, but still. I skim over most things now, searching out just fun posts, and I do read news articles that I need to, but I try to avoid comments.
Sometimes, Ill find myself sifting through the vapid, hateful, ignorant posts, getting more and more frustrated at our so called fellow man, and then I realize and ask myself, what the fuck am I doing? This is not productive for me.
Now, I just try to stay in my lane an avoid the orange stormtroopers, including those in my family.
It just amazes, and I mean, amazes me the shit I hear for supporting this clown.
So I just try to tune it out.

There, I feel a little better.

BojackHorsefella

Alright, I don't do long posts on my phone, but: now that the subject has been breached, I shall return to this tomorrow (and no, not with anger or animosity. Genuine, um, well...nihilism).

BojackHorsefella

#2
 
Quote from: Crewe on May 14, 2020, 09:37:15 PM
of the political landscape.
I've tuned out almost completely. Twitter has become almost as bad as FB was when I left.
Ok, not that bad, but still. I skim over most things now, searching out just fun posts, and I do read news articles that I need to, but I try to avoid comments.
Sometimes, Ill find myself sifting through the vapid, hateful, ignorant posts, getting more and more frustrated at our so called fellow man, and then I realize and ask myself, what the fuck am I doing? This is not productive for me.

I'm going to be typing quite a bit. Plus I'm working, so, I'll be exiting and returning to this, so curious to see how on point it stays. Plus, I have to figure out where to begin, because where DO we begin? I guess I'll start with your post.

Regarding Twitter...nope, nope that doesn't work for the start.

I'll start with the sifting, because I do the same thing. I think I keep waiting for the conversation where someone goes "Hey, I didn't even think about that before." But no, it's always "lock her up," "fake news," "Russian bot," yada yada. So, where does all that come from?

Now, before I go on my rant, let be very up front and clear: I do not have a doctorate in sociology, politics, anthropology, any ology. Also, I have a very skewed perspective when it comes to humanity. Being borderline and trying to operate in "polite society" has not always come easily. Hell, still doesn't.

So where to start? What happened? What do we do? How do we respond? I don't know. I don't even know what "we" is anymore. I can only speak for myself. I can only speak in anecdotes. I can share my experience, in life, in our current climate, and I can hope that maybe you see something I haven't and maybe we can fill in some of the blanks. 

Here is how I see it.

___________________

I was really, REALLY angry when I was younger. Very angry. At the time, it felt very justified, staying angry. I was angry at my family, I was angry at the mother of my son (and, not that it excuses anything, to be sure, but she matched my anger levels, which just created a never ending feedback loop). I was angry at customers at the retail jobs I worked, and I was angry, most of all, at myself.

As far as politics goes, I never paid much attention. I never voted until 2016. I didn't vote for Obama, either time (although, admittedly, I felt pretty confident he had it in the bag. But Romney didn't seem HORRIBLE to me, certainly not my first choice but didn't seem despicable, and I respected McCain for his time in the service). The simple truth is, I never thought about policy. Didn't consider it. I'm an average guy, I don't know what works best for everyone, so, I ignored it. Plus, how much of it really affected me?

As I got older and grew up, I started to care about certain issues that had no bearing on my life. I'm not sure why, someone as angry as me, who lashed out at others so often, would care about struggles that people different than me are going through, but, it honestly started off with caring about gay rights. It never sat well with me, I didn't understand why it mattered so much to people to just..stop a couple from being married simply based on their gender. Who cares? Why? Why do we care?

It goes on from there. I started paying attention to more and more. DACA. Standing Rock. And, of course, as time went on, things like #MeToo and BLM.


____________________________-


Did you know I used to deny climate change? I read a book, my first year of college. "State of Fear," by Michael Crichton. I THINK it was the last book he finished before his death, but there may have been one more after it, I can't recall. The book was all about the manipulation of data, and how climate change is a hoax. The information was mostly provided by dialogue, sometimes exposition, and for every scientific claim, there was a citation on the page of the study it came from. I even did a presentation on climate change being a hoax for a speech class in college, using those citations basically (I wonder if the teacher thought I actually read all those science papers.....)

Rolled with that for YEARS. Despite the news reports. "State of Fear" proved it's a hoax. Over time though, things change. It's hard to watch the actual effects of climate change and continue to deny it for me. I researched the book again, and saw the scientists that Crichton had cited, the same people, saying that the information in their papers was misconstrued by Crichton, and they had actually reached a different conclusion than he had presented: climate change is real. I remember reading an article about Chinese commercial ships navigating via new shipping lanes thanks to glaciers melting, and how that helped make shipping even cheaper for them. If you want to know the truth, following the money is a good way. I don't remember when that article was, but I know since we've recorded highest record temperatures year after year after year. I know we've lost a massive amount of ice in the arctic. I certainly can't deny it anymore. I don't know how others can.


__________________________

When you're young, and you're angry, and especially when you're male, you get away with a lot. I was somewhat lucky, in high school, that I had one friend who went against the current. He didn't have any labels, he wasn't "progressive" or "Republican" or anything like that, he was just Ryan. And he called out the shit he saw. He was one of those guys in your class who doesn't stand for the Pledge because it's jingoistic. He didn't want to glorify what he saw as an oppressive state. He was a black hoodie, black baggie jeans wearing white boy with jet black spiky hair. Listened to Manson and Nine Inch Nails.

I tried to emulate him for a while, but, when you're angry, there's no control. It's a pendulum, back and forth. "I want to be better and do better for people" juxtaposed with "why isn't this working out for me." I was basically a narcissist who hated himself, and when shit didn't work out it was someone else's fault, even though I was supposed to be this great thing. Borderline Personality Disorder. Plus, I'm a Gemini. I hate astrology, but man, that shit pegged me down.


_________________________________

After 9/11, I remember the patriotism. That's what we tell ourselves, right? "Remember how the nation came together." American citizens were getting ripped out of cabs and beaten just because they were Muslim. How many times did we see a news report (then and since), where a man was beaten because he "appeared" Muslim but was actually of a different nationality? But, we say we "came together."

If that was the ideal America, it really makes you wonder what the ideal America is, and who it's for? Right?

______________________________

I have a strange fascination with the "before" times, which is interesting, because I love the internet. I love everything technology gives us, I love the luxury and convenience and the comforts. I can call anyone from just about anywhere on my cell phone, be it for casual talk or if it's an emergency. Perpetual safety, right?

Is that what we're talking about when we talk about "Make America Great Again?" Is it just "make America feel safe" again? What does that entail? A lot of people harken back to the 50s, and yes, there is likely some bigotry there. It's always funny to me, when people say things like "Slavery was a long time ago!," and just completely discount both the Jim Crow years and the fact that an entire population of black people weren't even allowed a say in US politics until the Civil Rights movement, which wasn't very long ago, in the grand scheme of things. People act like it was ancient times. It wasn't. Same with women. How long did they have to wait to vote to have a say in anything? America had been up and running for HOW many years at this point? Our nation was built on white man laws made for white man people. I digress, but, I felt it was a worthwhile tangent.


I remember, reading some of Quentin Tarantino's statements on "Once Upon a Time in Hollywood," why he wanted to make the movie, why he changed the ending beyond just "that's what Tarantino does now." He stated that Manson killed the 60s. That we were on our way to this new ideal, this new America built on kindness, built on love. And then Charlie happened. Savagely murdered a young pregnant starlet and her friends (well, ordered it, anyways). How many serial killers did we get after that, too? You had the Summer of Sam. Eventually Bundy.

Sure, people hated hippies back then and all that, but it wasn't until Charlie decided he was going to take these wanderers, collect them, indoctrinate them, and use him for his ends. People got scared. People began to lock their doors.

What did Charlie take? What was it that we really lost then, and why haven't we gotten it back? How did that get us to where we are now?


______________________________________

I remember when GamerGate started. It was post Tea Party, I believe. A video game reviewer was outed as having slept with a video game developer that he gave a favorable review to. People said the game sucked, and absolutely harassed the shit out of both reporter and game developer (guess which one got the worst of it? The female game developer) online. This is where it started.

The simple fact is, GamerGate was one of the first organized collective mob that used simple numbers to launch an online harassment campaign across multiple social media platforms directly targeting individuals. These people were DOX'd, had their addresses, phone numbers, personal information put out in the public sphere. And as the targets of GamerGate have grown, the campaign has simply never quite faded away. It has changed, it's had spin-offs ("ComicsGate," which I can't even remember the reasoning behind, launched a campaign of abuse against multiple female comics industry professionals).

And as far as they're concerned, they got results. Article after article detailing GamerGate came out, and they reveled in the attention. Why? I imagine it helped their recruitment numbers. GamerGate was a massive force that if you weren't online, you wouldn't know about it, but you'd certainly recognize the formula in use in politics today.

Steve Bannon, then editor of Breitbart, directly asked Milo Yiannapoulis, the dredge of humanity who used to write for that website, to enter these circles and recruit GamerGaters to their cause.

The simple fact is, a campaign to bring awareness to journalism ethics wouldn't be a bad thing. A campaign that sets out to achieve this by primarily harassing female members of the industry they're trying to "protect" is just plain misogyny masquerading as "a cause." It's no surprise we saw a similar targeted campaign of harassment carried out against the people involved in Last Jedi, mainly Daisey Ridley and especially Kelly Marie Tran, who was run off of Twitter, simply for being an Asian female in a Star Wars movie.


_______________________________

Lets talk about faith (TALK ABOUUUUUUUUUUUUT FAITH). I have none. I grew up with a Jewish mother and a Catholic father. We celebrated Hannukah and Christmas, aka, my brother and I got presents on the first night of Hannukah and on Christmas. Growing up, I remember my mom always telling me how my dad's family didn't like her because she was Jewish. It's a rift that never closed.

I remember being young and my mom telling me that my dad's side of the family bought me expensive toys and such because they were "trying to buy my love." It's an interesting thing, being 6, 7, and being told your relatives don't actually love you. That they're "shady." Manipulative. I didn't know those words at the time (well, shady, but, that was more regarding trees), but I did know another one: trust. My mom basically said I couldn't trust half my family.


______________________________


Faith. I see a lot of people who talk about faith in religious terms. Faith in God. Faith in a good outcome. How many people have faith, and their faith isn't rewarded? How many have it, and will conform every thing that happens in their life to it? Promotion at work? Must be because I kept the faith. Got a raise? Must be because I kept the faith. Nevermind that good things and bad things happen to everybody regardless. Nope, God took a personal interest in me. Is it religion? Is it narcissism?



______________________

Good faith and bad faith. Could have two meanings. There are plenty of religious folk, Jewish, Muslim, Christian, who use their faith to help their communities. Raise money for those in need. Collect food for those who can't afford groceries. Provide clothes and blankets to children and battered wives. These are all good services.

Some are only interested in enriching themselves. The pastors. The churches. The parishioners. They sit there and listen to someone tell them how they're supposed to be good people and how great Jesus was and he hung out with the lepers and healed those who couldn't see. And then they see a homeless person on the street and do nothing. They see a gay child kicked out of their home and don't offer shelter because they're bigoted, because they only have hate in their heart. And, yes, I know this isn't only one group in this section, but I live in the US and they are the majority when it comes to religious groups here.



_______________________________

Good faith and bad faith. Hypocrisy? What are good faith and bad faith outside of religion. Well, it's arguments. Good faith arguments, bad faith arguments.

Good faith argument takes the subject at hand, and proceeds to discuss with an open mind. Am I right? Why am I right? Does the evidence support my decision? If not, what can I do to get the correct information and adjust my position so it's accurate?

A good faith argument requires both sides to be in that mindset. It requires either a fact-based argument, or, a clear and agreed upon foundation for the discussion. If I'm discussing the best way to build a TV, there's likely to be some evidence one way or another for that, with some differences of opinion here and there. Whereas, if I'm discussing the best movie ever made, well, that's all really opinion, isn't it?

BUT, even on opinion, when engaging in that discussion, you can set the agreed upon parameters. And it can be something as simple as, "everyone's taste is different, so your answer is valid simply for the reasons you've provided." Or, it can be "We believe these things make a good movie, so based on that, here are our choices for best movie ever made." You still may have a difference of opinion, but in the end, you can present your argument within the confines of the goalposts you have set. If someone goes OUTSIDE of the goalposts, they are now acting in bad faith. Simple.

________________________

We have seen many bad faith arguments over the years. I imagine this is not new to 2016, 2008, or even 2000. I imagine this goes back a ways.

Personal experience can be a hell of a thing. I remember, in 8th grade, in South Carolina, my history teacher actively calling the Civil War "the war of Northern Aggression." I remember having a classmate say "I hate Abraham Lincoln." I'm not kidding. "I hate Abraham Lincoln." Why? Why would anyone say that?

American individualism has been...such a thing. Since when though? Why? Was it the 60s and 70s? Was it the 80s, with the greed of Wall Street? The anything-goes 90s?

Why are we the only country with these mass shootings in our schools and our public spaces? Is it just the availability of guns? I imagine that plays a large part, but what is it about our people, our society, that seems to drive people to that solution?


______________________________________


Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm nostalgic for a past that never existed. People blame the internet for a lot of today's problems.

People look at the 50s and say things were better. Communities were stronger. Maybe that's true, for some. I think the problem anytime you're thinking back on the "good old days" for anything, there's likely a group or groups who were left out of that. There were plenty left out back then.

BUT, for a moment, if we ignore the identities at play here and focus, on a fully human level, on the experience, I get it. I GET IT. People used to leave their doors unlocked. Kids could just play outside and they'd come home when the street lights came on. We didn't have a cell phone to constantly check up on each other, we just had to trust everyone was doing their best, was doing ok, would reach out if they needed it. WE WEREN'T IN EVERYBODY ELSE'S BUSINESS.

BUT, even beyond that. You could trust your neighbors. Need someone to watch the kids in a pinch? Ask the nice elderly couple next door. Need to borrow sugar? Go knock on their door. Hell, walk in.

This exists some places, still. My brother's neighborhood in Greenville, SC, he lives in a cul-de-sc (well, did until the divorce, but anyways, rewind with me). The kids would just go over to each other's houses (apparently mostly his though, haha). Grilling out in the cul-de-sac as a big "block" party. Holidays were an everyone's included type thing, the more the merrier.

I understand how people who live in those types of situations can look at "big city" life and go "I don't want that." And big city people look at the small town life, they see it's "smaller," there's "less." It doesn't matter that everything in the city isn't quality, or that some stuff is certainly overpriced just because you're in the city, or the fact that you live in a 150 sq foot apartment and your neighbor has 30 people living in theirs, haha. It's city life, and it's what you want.


_________________________________________

Maybe it was the greed of the 80s, or maybe it was the self-promotion of the internet age, but at some point we started caring very much about ourselves, and not about each other. And some of that comes down to ideological differences, and some of it is just stubborn individualism or narcissism.

The internet is certainly part of it. It inspires the worst of us to do the worst. We've seen parents have kids taken away as they post "prank" videos on Youtube clearly showing mistreatment of their kids, all for likes and views. And money, gotta get that ad revenue, even if it means debasing yourself for everyone to see.

We've always had celebrity idiots, whichever side of the bench you're on. Now we have Youtube celebrities, almost of all whom are young, and immediately get in over their head. Actual celebrities have a lot of people in their industries that can help them or hurt them. Agents, PR reps, other actors, singers, whatever. There is no "Youtube" system like there is a Hollywood. There's no studios promoting their content or holding them accountable for anything. It's just them and the internet commentariat.

Anybody can say what they want, can be anonymous, can do whatever. But, even the anonymity doesn't always matter.

___________________________

Apparently the full version of this was over 20,000 characters, so, pardon me while I split this into two posts.

BojackHorsefella

[Continued from previous post]


I've been off Facebook for a while, but to Crewe's earlier point, man, anonymity DOESN'T matter, does it. You'll have "Beth Jolene Arbury" on there saying the WORST kinds of things in the comments section of some CNN article, with 0 concern for her public profile page, public workplace info and profile photo, haha. People get on the internet and their id just spills out, right?

I've been there too. I've gotten into the online "shouting matches." Remember, angry? Angry young white male. Was told the world would be mine, all that fun stuff.

As far as that goes, I was able to stop. I read online at some point that, either 60% or 40% of social media traffic is just bots. Just bots posting. Either over half, or just under. How many online arguments are you just fighting with a robot? Who are you convincing of anything? What's the point?

The internet has also led to the lost art of LOSING an argument. Before, you got into a discussion, even if you thought were right, if you were misproven, the person was PROBABLY either a colleague, family member, or friend. Most people weren't going out and just starting shit with strangers, except maybe on a TV or radio call-in show, haha. Maybe an angry "letter to the editor." Point is, whoever you lost the argument to, you had to face the next day. So we learned to accept it. Hey, I was wrong about that. Now I know. Thanks.

That's gone. Why admit being wrong? You're on Facebook, all of your friends who think the same way you do will come to your defense anyways. Twitter? Same. None of your friends are on Twitter? Tag some prominent person with a large following and let some of his folks come help you out. Why would you EVER admit defeat? You don't have to see this person you're arguing with. Hey, they made a great point. Lets create a scarecrow argument to deflect. Yeah, I know it doesn't prove my point, but the point isn't to win, it's to keep the argument going until the other guy gives up. Look, you made him quit! You won! You weren't right, but, you won!


___________________________________

When you're angry, when you're IN IT, there's no getting out unless you want to get out. And if you don't want to get out, then you're gonna stew, and that anger is going to fester. It's going to ROT inside of you. It's going to drive you to say and do things you would never have thought yourself capable of and you'll live the rest of your life regretting having ever done.

Everyone's angry right now. I don't fully get it. This is the political rants thread, so, we'll get a little political here. I was one of them. I was on Twitter, Facebook, raging against the machine. I still don't fully get it. People yelling about trans folk, yelling about illegal immigrants.

There's a significant portion of the population that believes "to give," that the other party has "to take." Give gays the right to marry? Well, I guess that means we took something away from the Catholic Church. Give trans citizens the right to serve in their country's military? Well, I guess we're taking away someone's right to...not be near a trans person?

Anger has been misdirected many places, and we've forgotten a few things. We are divided, and it's weird. People got on Trump for his "both sides" comment. It was deployed at a very incorrect time, regarding a very incorrect subject. There is no both sides in Charlottesville. There's a weird sort of both sides in reality.

One side has decided there can be no progress, it's as simple as that. We shouldn't have given gay people the right to marry. We shouldn't allow "transgender" citizens to exist. We should have no immigration.

The other side is trying to protect the civil rights of many, many groups, and of all people. Both sides decided the other is the enemy.

And now we have a pandemic.


________________________________________________

So, what does it all mean? What does it matter? iv'e been ranting and raving here. What's the summation?

The fact is, in politics, the left has been labeled the "identity politics" folk. There's a large swath of the population (mostly white), that believes equal rights for other groups means less rights for them. They've been taught this by Fox News, by their parents, maybe even by their church. And they've absolutely been told this by their politicians.

MEANWHILE, the other side has decided that perfection is the only way to exist. Either you're perfect in all that you embody and you've never had a problematic moment in your life. Or, you're "cancelled." And no, I'm not talking the Harvey Weinstein or Kevin Spacey shit, obviously the acts they committed were absolutely horrible and deserve no redemption.


BUT. BUT. That's the key, right? People DO grow. They DO mature. I'm not the same person I was 10 years ago. Ten years from now, I probably will be different than I am now. Maybe my views, my beliefs, my ideologies may remain the same, but perhaps I execute on them differently.

There's been a backlash against what's been labelled "identity politics." There's also a certain aspect of "this isn't what I want to hear." When people talk about climate change, they expect preventing it will greatly impact their lives. They'll have less. They'll be able to do less.

We see this in corporations a lot. Corporations LOVE to talk about regulations, red tape. It's funny, when I was in the Navy, we had a saying: The rules were written in blood. So were our regulations and laws regarding the environment, regarding workplace safety, etc etc. Meanwhile, people are dying in Amazon warehouses from coronavirus because they can't get the PPE they need, these days.

The truth is, we've been split up to decide the other is the enemy, when in fact, the simple truth is our government is the enemy, because they have completely failed us. They failed to protect us from the disinformation campaigns that have swept through the internet (I SWEAR TO GOD if anyone on here mentions that Plandemic piece of shit bullshit "documentary"). They failed to prepare for this pandemic at all, or, at least, to follow the preparations they were handed.

Most of all, they've failed to protect their citizens. They've failed to protect them from economic hardship, from each other with these protests and states re-opening early (did you know Texas set a SINGLE DAY HIGH?) And why? They don't want to increase testing, because increased testing leads to more cases, and more cases leads to stock market performing poorly.

And that's all this re-opening business is about. It's about the stock market, and lining the pockets of the CEOs and already wealthy. A real government, one that ACTUALLY worked for the people, would be bailing out its citizens, not corporations. Hell, those CEOs with their insane bonus checks and 5 yachts should be bailing out their work force (obviously, not mom and pop shops, they rely on the government which is still failing them).

We pay taxes, our taxes build bombs and war planes and we never have a problem with those. Hell, our taxes have paid for a LOT of golfing by our current White House occupant. So where's our bailout? Why are people going hungry during this pandemic? Why are people losing jobs and losing income when our government, that we pay taxes to, these elected officials that WE vote for, why are they failing us? And since they're failing us, why are we blaming the other side? 

Other countries have bailout programs going. Canada I think has like, a weekly or a monthly program paying citizens right now. I got my stimulus check, $1200. Fortunately I'm in a situation where I can work from home, but if I wasn't? That's one week's pay. Cool. I could've gone on another week.

They talk about "well, everyone should have a savings account," and yet our citizens are the only citizens paying egregious prices to see doctors, pay for medications for lifelong conditions, or just having the bad luck of getting hit by a driver and now having to pay for it years after. Some of us live in rural areas with a poor job market and low wage jobs only.

So, I get the reasoning BEHIND "opening the country," but the anger is misplaced. We're supposed to have a government BY the people, FOR the people. In the people's greatest time of need, it has completely failed the people.


America has the highest count of coronavirus deaths. But how many more deaths have there been? How many people are dying indirectly from coronavirus? Are suicides up? How would we know? How many have starved? Who's died from a different sickness because they were too afraid to go to the hospital? How many people have developed cancer and don't know it, maybe they've been feeling off and if they could get to a hospital, they could get tested and detect it early, but instead, will shake things off and if they even get to a hospital at some point, it'll be too late (early detection being the key and all).

We BARELY understand the LONG TERM implications of ANY of this. And our government isn't trying to understand it right now. That's what Doctor Rick Bright was testifying to earlier. People are just in the present. They don't want to sacrifice. Their anger is being used against them and they don't even realize it, or at least don't even care?

And why? Because Trump. He hates everything they hate. He hates the "identity politics," all of it. He believes climate change is a hoax too, even though it's not. He believes women are inferior to men, and that being a big, strong man is more important than being a smart one.

They worship him, for these reasons. The bankruptcies don't matter. "Grab them by the pussy" doesn't matter. They think he's a big strong man even though he won't wear a mask because he's so insecure he's afraid it'll make him look weak.

Every single progressive movement that people have criticized and railed against, Trump is the physical embodiment of "anti-that." Anti-immigrants. Anti-MeToo. Anti-BLM. Anti-anything remotely progressive in stance. And he might be the last gasp. That way of thinking is on its way out. So, here we are. They have to dig their heels in.

Not everybody's like that, though. There's a growing Republican movement against him. Mind you, that doesn't mean the philosophy of "profit over people" will change. The truth is, America needs all new laws, humanitarian laws, for dealing with the things we face today. We likely won't be getting those soon. So, instead, we argue and yell because nothing works for everybody, and it's the other guy's fault for demanding so much.

Add to that disinformation campaigns via bot, via propaganda news networks, via whatever, that allow people to just go inside their bubble and pretend everything they do is fine.

____________________________________

How do we fix it?

Part of the reason I was always so angry is the whole "don't let people walk over you" thing. I was eager to please people, and wary of their intentions. Weird way to go through life.

The answer? Balance. It's balance. And I don't mean that in the "moderate" or "centrist" way, because right now the Overton window is farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr to the right. Being "in the middle" politically right now means you're shallow right leaning.

The trickle down economics need to stop, because they simply do not work. We've seen corporate greed on a level far greater than anything in the 80s, and we like to act like they deserve it. Yeah, Elon Musk seems like he's really doing great things these days. And yeah, sure, Bezos needs a trillion dollars while his workers die in his factories.

We need an Upton Sinclair in industry. We need many, many Frank Serpicos in our police force (oh right, I didn't even touch on how communities went from being friendly with neighborhood cops to now having a militarized offensive force patrolling instead). And most of all, we need a populist movement that actually works for the ENTIRE American population. LGTBQ, minorities, women, all. Equal pay, equal rights. Healthcare, no one should ever have to choose between dying or bankruptcy, that's absolutely absurd.

____________________________________________

The part I fear, though, is there is no going back. Maybe I'm giving people too much credit. Maybe empathy is dead. The pandemic would suggest as much.

The fact is, everyone wearing masks has already been proven to reduce transmission. Some of us are asymptomatic. Maybe no one on this site, but, the general population. We could be spreading it and not even know. It's so important to be responsible when out in public for the overall safety of your fellow neighbors, especially children and the elderly (with all the weird side effects COVID is having on children lately).

The other half of it is hospitals are OVERWHELMED. They don't have enough ventilators, they don't have enough PPE. And, remember they're not necessarily treating JUST COVID. There are people with lifelong conditions that NEED to see a doctor during this period of time, either just regularly or in emergency situations. We need our hospitals available to us, and the best way to do that is to stay home. A real government would be taking care of its citizens financially to ensure that happens. We do not currently have a real government.

Meanwhile, the All Lives Matter crowd has decided no lives matter if they can't get a haircut. They protest outside Baskin Robbins, they protest outside of gyms. What they should be demanding is not that the country re-open and their neighbors, friends and family all have to die so Jeff Bezos and other CEOs can continue to collect. They should be demanding their government does its job and uses that taxpayer money to ensure it's citizens are cared for and able to quarantine without hardship.

But, you know, apparently they've done a really good job of convincing their followers that we should all be on our own and everyone has to pull themselves up by the bootstraps. It's a pandemic, but we're all in this individually, not together.

The pandemic has shown that this "individualism ideology" is not the way to run a country, it's not the way to conduct society. We have so many things in this country, and across the globe, because of other people. People got mad at Obama's "you didn't build that" comment, but the infrastructure of this country is what enables ANYTHING to run. Our people are part of that infrastructure too. You simply can't have a civilization without others, and to try to pretend like you don't need anyone else who thinks differently from you is absurd.

People don't understand oppression and fascism. They say the fact they have to stay in their homes to protect other people is fascism. FASCISM. Empathy. "All Lives Matter." Nope, fascism to have to care about other people. They go and protest on the court steps, but when Standing Rock happened, or Ferguson or any protests that didn't involve white people, they were nowhere to be found. Now, suddenly this is oppression.

__________________________

I could go on and on. We see these militia types wearing tactical gear and carrying AR-15s, so well known in America for being used for mass school shootings. They're terrorists. They have an agenda that they're attempting to inflict on their fellow citizens via intimidation and fear. That's terrorism. It's domestic terrorism, even without firing a shot. But they won't call it that because they're on "their side."

The sad truth is, I don't know how any of this gets fixed. Maybe Biden gets elected and does prosecute Trump and his admin, to the fullest extent of the law, and they get justice, and no one tries to do what they did ever again. But Trump is a SYMPTOM. He works in his spot because he has the same ideals and ideology of the party that elected him, which basically amounts to "Profit." Not that America's profiting, but, you know, that's what they thought they were going to get, for some reason.

The truth is, a lot needs to happen in this country to fight back against what we're seeing. It's not just politics, there's just simply a disintegration of fact. Discussions aren't even "my facts vs your facts," it's just "I reject your facts and offer you nothing in return, you should just believe me." It's insanity, basically.

I don't have much hope for the future. I try to be optimistic, but, this country is headed in a very bad direction. I fear for a lot of things. I fear what will happen if Trump loses the election. I fear what will happen if he wins. I don't see a good ending to any of this because there are a LOT of people in this country that are ready to commit to some violent acts against their fellow citizens, and I don't understand that mindset at all.

I'm the movie guy though. And I come back to one quote:

"Remember, Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."

So I keep hoping things will get better. Not for "my side." Not for "their side." For everyone. A truly productive society that takes care of its citizens, aids the sick, aids the elderly, because it's the right thing to do. Because it's the moral and ethical thing to do. Helps the environment, doesn't continue to poison it. I hope, because it's about all I really have left.





____________________________________



I rambled. I said a lot. I'm not reviewing or editing this. It's just out there. I'm so tired of all of it, every day, it's overwhelming and exhausting. We all are. I'm curious to hear everyone's thoughts. I'm not going to fight anyone who disagrees with me. I may try to have a discussion, but, this thread should be a safe place. We're all scared, whichever "side" you're on. I don't feel like being scared on Blindsideblitz. You shouldn't have to either.

Crewe

Jesus fuck man lol what did I start?

That's a TON to unpack. I'll begin with what I read and go over the rest later.

"Hey, I didn't even think about that before."

That's a huge deal to me. It's all this what aboutism bullshit.
Nobody cares about listening to other viewpoints because, fuck your guy, he/she's a criminal an a traitor.
That's another thing, language is so misused now for shock effect, it means nothing anymore, but I digress.
So why would you listen to anyone else? All they do is shout, and insult and go off topic when you raise a good point.
I was talking to a female friend and Trump supporter, which surprises me, but nonetheless, she talks politics and I engage, we are friends and its going ok until I just have to call BS on something she said. It was a factual, poignant thought and immediately she gored faced and huffed, "well what about the Clintons?"
I mean, damn man, seriously?
There's just no engagement anymore and you have people who social media embolden with their 240 character spitfire rhetoric, like Tommy Lahren who's only good quality is once every couple of years she makes a decent point base on fact.
it's just all so vicious and facts are cherry picked...there's some douche who actually brought up the definition of disinfectant when the orangesicle made that claim, and this guy actually said by definition, you want to disinfect yourself so what he said was true.
Dear God the lengths people go to support a team.
I cant talk to people like that, I cant even fathom how they function in society, at least the society I used to know.

Ill read and respond to more later

BojackHorsefella

Quote from: Crewe on May 15, 2020, 05:54:36 PM
Jesus fuck man lol what did I start?

LOTTA time to think in quarantine. LOTTA time, hahaha

TheNorm

Yeah, I'm gonna have to come back to this a little later. Wow.
"But it is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention. And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the negro poor has worsened over the last twelve or fifteen years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity." - Martin Luther King, Jr

BojackHorsefella

Quote from: TheNorm on May 15, 2020, 08:33:44 PM
Yeah, I'm gonna have to come back to this a little later. Wow.


Look, I think about this shit 24/7, EVERY SINGLE DAY, because I'm just trying to find the balance. And Crewe gave me the opportunity to suck everyone in to my mania, hahaha

Crewe

Quote from: BojackHorsefella on May 15, 2020, 08:38:58 PM
Quote from: TheNorm on May 15, 2020, 08:33:44 PM
Yeah, I'm gonna have to come back to this a little later. Wow.


Look, I think about this shit 24/7, EVERY SINGLE DAY, because I'm just trying to find the balance. And Crewe gave me the opportunity to suck everyone in to my mania, hahaha

Glad I could be of help lol

Crewe

ok so th angry bit;
I understand, kinda, but for me, I was/am angry at myself in a pessimistic sense.
Sure I hated others but not outwardly. Like, if I was driving and passed a small car accident, I would just say, good, fuck em, nice to know shit happens to other people.
So I was kinda dark for a long time. That obviously affects your outlook.


What you share in your climate change story is exactly what I look for in a person. It's not that some have a different opinion than me, it's that you completely shun any evidence to the contrary and any discussion of such.
Sadly, the world is too much like that. Beyond the Curve (or is it behind the curve?) demonstrates this in part, albeit they are not angry, but even when their own experiments show the truth, they still deny deny deny. Now that isn't a great example because I think these folks are just socially awkward with other issues that found each other and needed something to bond over. Flat earth doesn't matter. it could have been the sky is not blue club or anything, these guys just needed an avenue to gather.
In short, people do not discuss anymore.

What does MAGA actually mean?
Yea, I've been after a straight answer to this since day one and still don't have one.
As regard to the 50's, "some bigotry" is kind. We all think of the Norman Rockwell America, like something out of the Back to the Future 50's that's nostalgic and I think that's what MAGA was supposed to be, but it's also meant to harken bak to superiority over blacks and women and all that jazz.
And they will be like flat earth's, denying it, but all you have to do is listen, and you'll know.
Bottom line, MAGA is an appeal to white America to erase the black man's Presidency IMO.

The flowers, the hippies, free love, who knows how and if that would have transcended in our society?
I mean you had the summer of love and Woodstock and then the next year you had Charlie and Altamont.
It did change America just like 9/11, perhaps not as profoundly, but it did.
I remember seeing a thing about Woodstock and where are they now featuring people in famous photographs and it was ironic.
Rise up against corporate America, the greedy corruption and the brain washing of it's people and yet here you had these guys doing just what they supposedly hated. Can we blame Charlie for that? I dont think so.
I do recall that one of those famous photos was the guy who came up with the 'plop plop fizz fizz" Alka Seltzer commercials back when.

BojackHorsefella

Quote from: Crewe on May 17, 2020, 12:21:13 PM
As regard to the 50's, "some bigotry" is kind.

Oh, mind you, I'm not saying there was "some bigotry" in the 50s in that statement. There was much. I'm speaking more for why people have that nostalgic feel for "the way things were." I think people did feel safer then, but the world has since gotten larger, louder, and faster moving. I imagine though, for many people with racist inclinations, part of that safe feeling was the spoken and unspoken oppression of minorities. But for others, it was just the 50s, I'd think.


Crewe

Quote from: BojackHorsefella on May 17, 2020, 06:24:39 PM
Quote from: Crewe on May 17, 2020, 12:21:13 PM
As regard to the 50's, "some bigotry" is kind.

Oh, mind you, I'm not saying there was "some bigotry" in the 50s in that statement. There was much. I'm speaking more for why people have that nostalgic feel for "the way things were." I think people did feel safer then, but the world has since gotten larger, louder, and faster moving. I imagine though, for many people with racist inclinations, part of that safe feeling was the spoken and unspoken oppression of minorities. But for others, it was just the 50s, I'd think.


I agree, and I think the other part of it is that back then, truly anyone could make it.
A high school educated fella could start a business, get a decent job, have 2,3,4 or 5 kids, still buy a big enough house and have a wife that doesn't work.
I mean, it was rough of course, but those days are hell and gone. Industries are dying or being sent oversees, there's just little avenue for a guy to make it nowadays like he could back then.

Im rolling through All in the Family again and even in the show they say many times Archie makes $250 a week and does ok supporting his family and even has money saved and can buy a business.


Crewe

ok, Im at work today so I have time to catch up here lol
I think I left off at Gamergate.

I think your point is essentially the characteristics and traits of those who dox and harass via social media.
This is where I think social media is precipitating the decay of society, seriously. I mean, how could anyone argue otherwise?
These vile creatures are unhappy soulless ghouls who have no shame or understanding and certainly zero capacity for critical thought or empathy.
And they vote.

the faith thing...Im gonna kinda gloss over this one, except to say, I always had wonderment about the phrase God has a plan for you.
Does he? Really? I appreciate that its usually said to give one comfort, but it just seems like propaganda, which has been rampant forsomet time.
Was it God's plan to wash away thousands in those tsunami's? Did someone say tis one of those guys the day before, hey, dont worry, Go has a plan for you. This isn't meant to be an attack on faith, although I know it comes off that way.

Re: looking back, nostalgia.
I think you were pretty well spot on with that assessment. Yes, looking back, groups are always left out but on the whole, society was kinder and more neighborly, sans the lynchings and police murdres and what not.
Ive told people for decades now, that Ive witnessed a severe change in the police forces in America. Gone are the days of the beat cop who knew the people in his district and actually gave a shit about them. Again, you have to leave out the fact that there were always dirty filthy murderous cops on the take, but overall, they weren't. There was nobility in becoming a police officer in my day.
But in the 80's and 90's, the education bar was lowered, and these guys became angrier and more aggressive and before long we had no knock raids killing innocents and we have poorly trained cops who are allowed to just rage with no consequences, at all.
yea eventually you get some polished white turd in his dress blues spouting of some bullshit written by a college intern that meaningless but somehow appeases the public and we move on.
Meanwhile, you cant distinguish between the military and police force. This is extremely dangerous.

I graduate high school in 84 and to me it was a glorious time, sans the Cold War and one hit wonders. In the summer, I woke up and got out of the house as long as I was back by the time the streetlights came on as you mentioned. No purse strings no cell phones, again, trusted to handle ourselves as we were raised to behave.

Re: debates / arguing
there's no discourse anymore, none.
You lodge a legit complaint about Trump, you're hit with Obama and Clinton and the point is never addressed.
it is all about my side winning

There's a significant portion of the population that believes "to give," that the other party has "to take." Give gays the right to marry? Well, I guess that means we took something away from the Catholic Church. Give trans citizens the right to serve in their country's military? Well, I guess we're taking away someone's right to...not be near a trans person?

Anger has been misdirected many places, and we've forgotten a few things. We are divided, and it's weird. People got on Trump for his "both sides" comment. It was deployed at a very incorrect time, regarding a very incorrect subject. There is no both sides in Charlottesville. There's a weird sort of both sides in reality.


I cant add much to that

Im really getting lathered up so I need to stop. This is pretty much you and I here anyway and I think we are pretty much in agreement.

BojackHorsefella








As I said: this is a new Confederacy. These fuckers are salivating at the mouth to murder their fellow citizens AND constituents, no less.









Meanwhile, that whole ANTIFA is a terrorist organization thing? Yeah, first off, ANTIFA is not a thing. There is no ANTIFA. It's not a group. There's no leader. There is no such thing. But, thanks to Trump's dubious executive order declaring them as such, the DOJ can now be weaponized against anyone seen protesting, even peacefully, at these rallies to identify and target them. Meanwhile, the KKK, Proud Boys, 3%ers, Vanguard America and more white supremacist orgs continue to not be labelled as such. Man, I wonder why.....

Crewe

which is exactly what his base wants, its what they always want. To eradicate anyone they deem an enemy.
Trump is a fascist and his dimwits eat it up.
dont listen to what anyone else says, you just listen to me, I'll take care of you, and they lap it up.
So much misinformation and flat out lies.
Where's his "both sides" bullshit now?