The Last of Us 2

[Rigg44]

I am not doing an in-depth review because I do not want to spoil anything.  here is what I will say Graphics: the most beautiful game I have ever played Story: very dark and at times depressing but outstanding.  You will care for people on both sides and you will be torn in the end.  I am not going to argue the motives of those giving negative reviews but I will say this, this game is in my top 5 all-time and maybe number one.  The first one set a high bar this one lept right over it. PLAY THIS GAME and you will not be sorry.  I don't push for people to buy new I usually wait on single-player games until they are on sale but do yourself a favor and play this before someone spoils it for you. Here are my only "warnings"  It is gory and it is dark with mature themes but man is the story worth it.   

[Crewe]

Good to hear. I was planning on getting it down the road, but price drops dont usually happen for two years do they?
I mean RDR2 didnt go on sale until this year so, yea I think Ill be paying full whack for LOU2.
Like with most movies, music, games, I typically dont listen to online reviews. I consider them, but I rely on people I know who have firsthand accounts so I appreciate this post.
Im going for 100% on RDR2 which will take a while but then Ill dive in to the net one. I may never get back to The Show lol

[Crewe]

Im not buying this yet, but just because I see posts about it, were you able to perfect the jump kill?
I haven't seen anyone tell how its done.

[Crewe]

ok so I have the game and here's a quick drive by...
Im on Seattle Day 2
Pros: Absolutely love the gun play and fighting aspect. Pretty realistic gun range with acceptable skills and reactions.
The story continues to be intriguing. The method in which the characters carry on plot worthy dialog while still managing to be sarcastically funny about nothing really adds depth to them.
Also really enjoy the seamlessness from cutscene to gameplay. It was really good in RDR2 but I think LOU2 is a bit better.
I had forgotten pretty much everything about LOU except that Joel saved Ellie at the end. So now, Im completely lost but dont want to look anything up because of spoilers but Im sure it will all be explained.
It's wonderful storytelling in that we can really feel the attachment between Joel and Ellie, and other characters as well.
I too will avoid more comments for fear of spoilers.

Cons: I guess this could be games in general because I dont know development barriers. But the fact you can literally trash a place for ten minutes, breaking windows and the like, then walk through a rotten door and there's three enemies "looking" for you who are obviously deaf.
It's just so stupid and silly and ruins the environment.
Same with gunplay...you fight a war in your "squared off area" and after its all quiet, you move to the next section where its all rambunctious again as if nobody is able to hear or see anything unless its within five feet of them.
And that sort of ties in to my "open world" complaint.
I have to say first, I dont know if LOU2 was touted as open world or not, and while I know the latter Uncharted's rallied around the feature where you dont have to fight if you can get around the enemies. I assume LOU2 was meant to be the same as its the same developers.
With that in mind, this game is not open world by any stretch, thus far anyway.

Spoiler: show

You get led to an area with say 3,4 or 5 houses or businesses you are allowed to search. You will find multiple pathways which you think will lead elsewhere but ultimately, they all fed right back to the main linear story line.
So basically, its, fight, figure out a puzzle, move forward to a new "open world" fight, repeat.

And if there is a way to bypass enemies, damned if I can figure it out. Once, I was able to get around two of them, but ultimately had to face them down to get to the next checkpoint. So it was moot.
I do have to note that there have been instances where it's actually been realistic, moving from one checkpoint to the next, but still, I guess when you do a linear story like this, there's no other way to do it except clear point A, move to B, etc...

[Crewe]

ok finished this one, and in short, I agree with Rigg.
Naughty Dog really told a great story in a narrative fashion Ive not seen in a video game.
So, I knew it was going to be different when

Spoiler: show

We start with Abby but I had no idea the depth of character we were going to reach.
Up until the end, I was solidly behind Abby instead of Ellie.
She had much more growth and while we lived Ellie's story, we see enough of Abby's to know her pretty well via conversations and actions.
Covering multiple arcs, the developers were able to weave together a sometimes seemingly clunky story into a seamless artful finish.
I can also say I did not see that ending coming, at all.
Here's what I thought, and this was all the way out to the water before Ellie demanded a fight to the death.
I figured Ellie was going to die from her wounds, but her and Abby would reconcile their worlds into an understanding and rapport about their discoveries.
She would then be harvested for a cure by the Fireflies.
But alas, that's just too damn delightful.
I then see that after the fight, Ellie suddenly has her realization of life, her development, her arc, she reaches the point in which Abby did earlier in the story. But, it's too late.
The guitar was the bind and the bond between her and Joel and now she had lost that over revenge. Something that was not going to cure anything.
Lost Dina, JJ and probably didnt return to Jackson.
Being let in on the root of the animosity built up in Ellie at the end in her discussion with Joel via flashback, was quite revealing.
She felt tremendous guilt for being alive. Knowing she could have been the cure and the world could have been healing those years since.
She loved him, but the guilt manifested itself into resentment. She never was able to resolve her inner conflict and then Joel died. All she had left was rage and revenge.

And finally, that fight scene? Fuck man. That was awesome. You dont see films that combine believability and emotion like Naught Dog did here.

This game was part video game and part cinematic experience and it was intertwined beautifully to tell us a story.
So to bullet point my pros and cons:
-The cutscenes were strategically placed to fill in the story for us as we go along and LOU2 did this better than any other I've seen.
-The gunplay and fighting were realistic and incredible. Reloading, recoil, firing range, damage etc, just really nice to see.
-Graphics were terrific. I still prefer RDR2 in that arena but it may just be the genre that sways my vote.
-I love that the enemies employ a solid strategy to attack.

Cons
-I just dont like games where you have a fight in a "square or area" then move to the next one five feet over where there's a dozen guys who didnt hear a single gunshot or scream. I do realize I am being way picky here but still, it's a preference.
To make this a positive, Ill add, the difference ND made in the difficulty levels was certainly noticeable and affects my opinion above. I had to change several times because there was just some that were, pardon the pun, killing me. Oh and

Spoiler: show

seriosly, I think there were only two or so here, but can we finally do away with boss levels? Jesus, it's so 1980's.

The puzzles are a bit of a pain in the ass for me sometimes too. Finish a fight, search high and low for twenty minutes for a four inch crevice to squeeze through to move on /s

Is this a play now? I dont know, I know how some of us are on this sub, me for instance, just now playing a 2018 GOTY in RDR2, so I hesitate to say buy now, but Ill add if you do pay full whack, I dont think you'd be disappointed at all.
And a final note; I didnt get into all the hoopla surrounding this game prior to because I didnt want to be spoiled. But looking back now, I gather its because;

Spoiler: show

A) Ellie was gay and we see girls kissing
B)Abby was a built like a brick house and no way could a woman look like that.
If it was A, grow the fuck up.
If it was B, grow the fuck up.

This game deserves none of the negativity surrounding it IMO.
Not sure if this one is repayable for me like SM and RDR2 but it was certainly a great experience.

[Rigg44]

This game deserves none of the negativity surrounding it IMO.
Not sure if this one is repayable for me like SM and RDR2 but it was certainly a great experience.

Crew and so glad to hear you enjoyed it.  I am not exaggerating to say the story was better than most movies I have watched.  The voice acting was top notch.  I am at a loss as to the negative reviews this game is getting.  It is beautiful the gameplay is done to perfection (for what it is) and the story is outside the box and not just more of the same.   

[Crewe]

This game deserves none of the negativity surrounding it IMO.
Not sure if this one is repayable for me like SM and RDR2 but it was certainly a great experience.

Crew and so glad to hear you enjoyed it.  I am not exaggerating to say the story was better than most movies I have watched.  The voice acting was top notch.  I am at a loss as to the negative reviews this game is getting.  It is beautiful the gameplay is done to perfection (for what it is) and the story is outside the box and not just more of the same.

I agree. And just as I posted that, I started a new game, tinkering around right now, not sure Ill finish it but still having a good time

[BojackHorsefella]

From being way too online and reading up on everything, the bad reviews are two-fold.

The first of it is, the same kind of people who "review bomb" stuff like Captain Marvel, Last Jedi, etc. They see a game with a lesbian main character, a trans-character, and another female who is masculine-presenting and immediately they feel threatened and go do what they do. That's whatever.

But, the other half of it, again, based on what I've read, falls into this quote from Kotaku:

"Everybody suffers, physically and emotionally, in graphic detail. This is all intended to prove a point, but the only point I got from the game was simply to be required to stare at violence, and play through violence, and then do that again, and more, and again, and more."

It's a bit GoT, what with major character deaths, but unlike other games where characters make similar decisions, this game never gives you an out. It says "Sure, Abby did this thing, but look at what you've done. MAYBE YOU'RE THE REAL MONSTER," while it never gives you a choice to NOT be one (most reviews I've read point to two things: 1) the fact that the game has stealth mechanics, but still forces you into gunfights in most instances, and 2) the dog scene. While most dogs in the game you can avoid killing, there's at least one scene where you're forced to kill the dog, and then you also have to watch a flashback to the dog playing fetch in its younger years. This also goes in line with not being able to stealth around people, and then having to hear them cry out when they find their dead friends and call them by their actual names and such.

Again, based solely on the multiple reviews I've read from outlets, that seems to be the main complaint: "Look at this thing you did, why did you do that, you should question your actions," which just doesn't work as well in a game that doesn't give you a choice in the matter (unlike, say, RDR2, Mass Effect, KOTR, etc). They say it's surface level.

Having not played the game, I can't actually weigh in with my own thoughts on the matter, but I understand the logic behind it. Sometimes "brutal, gory, and difficult" doesn't actually mean "enlightened," it's all about the execution (again, see GoT, until, like, season 6).

[Crewe]

Lesbian, trans and masculine presenting? Who pray tell, might those characters be?

All I read was about the gender portion before playing this game, that was part of my problem, I didnt see anyone addressing the gameplay.
I do agree and even posted about the stealth thing myself.

So are you saying that players, by invoking stealth attributes, would be able to avoid say killing a dog or a certain character that would then somehow make the story have, less violence?
That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
I mean, take RDR2. You had to play the main story. Outside of that, you could be honorable or dishonorable which would lead to different endings, albeit the same result. Arthur dies.
The story is being told and its a violent one and it has gay people in it.
So I still think the complaints are not justified.

[BojackHorsefella]

Lesbian, trans and masculine presenting? Who pray tell, might those characters be?

All I read was about the gender portion before playing this game, that was part of my problem, I didnt see anyone addressing the gameplay.
I do agree and even posted about the stealth thing myself.

So are you saying that players, by invoking stealth attributes, would be able to avoid say killing a dog or a certain character that would then somehow make the story have, less violence?
That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
I mean, take RDR2. You had to play the main story. Outside of that, you could be honorable or dishonorable which would lead to different endings, albeit the same result. Arthur dies.
The story is being told and its a violent one and it has gay people in it.
So I still think the complaints are not justified.

Well, Ellie's a lesbian, I think one of Abby's crew is trans (I know there's a trans individual in the game, although I'm not sure where they come into play)? And a lot of the online hate towards Abby has been that she's a butch looking female (also, a certain incident with a golf club).


And as far as stealth elements go, yeah, basically avoiding fights. Not so much "use stealth to get to this spot to cut a rope and drop an anvil on someone," because that'd be more of the same. I think (because, again, going off of what I've read from others, having not played the game myself) the idea is that because the game is so in your face with the "LOOK AT THESE PEOPLE WITH REAL FEELINGS AND FRIENDS AND FAMILIES AND HOW YOU HAVE HURT THEM," while giving you no alternative, gives a lot of people an icky feel like they're being punished for just playing the game which makes it difficult to enjoy.

As opposed to the first game, which at least had the underpinnings of hope and humanity (mostly via Ellie, who, of course, gets broken down over the course of this game now. And I suppose Joel's arc in the first was one of being "the hard guy" to being a big ol' softy who dooms humanity).

[Crewe]

Ah, so essentially, shining a light on Ellie's enemies, living them substance and then having to kill them is making people feel dirty as opposed to when they were just nameless thugs?
Pardon me, but that's what made the story so enthralling and enjoyable and was kinda the whole point.
If we just went through without that aspect, it would have been just a shoot zombies game.
Let me know what you think if you play it, although it seems you already know the story.

[TheNorm]

Think I need to stay out of this thread considering I still haven't completed the first game lol...how I avoided any spoilers still to this point I have no idea haha

[BojackHorsefella]

Ah, so essentially, shining a light on Ellie's enemies, living them substance and then having to kill them is making people feel dirty as opposed to when they were just nameless thugs?
Pardon me, but that's what made the story so enthralling and enjoyable and was kinda the whole point.
If we just went through without that aspect, it would have been just a shoot zombies game.
Let me know what you think if you play it, although it seems you already know the story.

Kind of a response to Norm's reply too, but I finally played the first Last Of Us.....maybe 2, 3 years after it originally came out? OH god, it came out in 2013. So, yeah, I played it 5 or 6 years after it came out, when I got it on sale for $10 with the Ellie prequel DLC.

Even knowing the whole story already by that point in time, especially the ending, it was still an amazing playthrough. There were definitely repetitive bits (Uncharted had these too) and Naughty Dog sure does love their killing fields, but still, excellent game.


I imagine when I finally get around to playing Last of Us 2 5 or 6 years from now I'll also enjoy it.

I think it's a two-fold thing: I think part of it is that Naughty Dog promoted this "cerebral, high-level story" that's really just "really bad things happen, who's REALLY the bad guy," and it's not as smart and profound as they think it is (again, just, middlemanning here). Which, in a time of quarantine, I can see where "EDGELORD: THE GAME" might not be as well received as Naughty Dog thought.

There's also the fact that as brutal as the first game was, this one is far moreso, including to the characters we grew to love (there's also talk about those characters, Joel in particular, making choices that do not mesh with who we know these characters to be).

I mean, that's the thing though, right? A lot of this just comes down to opinion. Me, right now, in 2020: I don't want to play "The Road: Seattle." I'm sure the gameplay itself is quite good, but, I just can't quite take the misery porn right now.

There's also a funny byproduct where, just in terms of the negative reviews, by adding a diverse cast of characters to a game that is exceptionally brutal by it's franchise's nature, now has people condemning it for the treatment of those same diverse characters.

So, yes, it's a maelstrom (or, at least, it was upon release). Now, it's yesterdays news as most of these "pop culture outrage" bits tend to go (unless it's Last Jedi.....)

[Crewe]

I cant speak to how ND presented the game, and even stated that when I was discussing the stealth option as I was playing through.
The story is a good one, and it's a creative spin in the LOU world and I dont doubt it has its detractors, but I would imagine overall, people that arent just whiny incelsappreciated the story in the way it was told.
I dont want to spoil things so Ill refrain from examples but when you guys play, we can talk in further detail about the actual game and how it fits this discussion.

[Crewe]

Think I need to stay out of this thread considering I still haven't completed the first game lol...how I avoided any spoilers still to this point I have no idea haha

lol norm Im the same way about most things. Im very adept at spoiler avoidance in the last two decades. Matter of fact the last movie spoiled for me was The Sixth Sense lol

I had perused some negative articles about the game prior to playing just to see if it was a childish I hate this game outlook or if it was legitimate concerns. Turns out it was all invalid complaints as far as Im concerned.